Blue Max Bandsaw Tires for MM16

[Bruce Wrenn]

Looking at another thread about tires for the MM16 saw led me to do a google search of Blue Max tires for band saws. In their Ebay store, they list a set (2) for less than $60, that fit the MM16. Just an FYI, to be soon forgotten.

[Jim Becker]

I have these in my "shopping list" on Amazon...a little more money than that, but posting as an option:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F5GYPTW...v_ov_lig_dp_it

[Tom Trees]

They don't have a tongue, and one would have questions about how much of a crown a flat urethane tire (if these are flat?, unlike the crowned Centauro CO tires)
will create on either side of the wheel when installed.
No crown means no beam tension!
and the saw will not cut well, bog down, burn, and not be in any way accurate, and in all likelihood ('cuz evidently no-one aligns wheels on bandsaws)
compresses set on regular blades, as I've got a box of old ones with minimal use though unusable without setting the teeth again.

Here's the Centauro CO 600 tire for you to see, (for the modern ones which have the grooved wheels)
and although most here seemingly reckon I've either got a reject, from the official UK dealer..
or that the profile is different on 600mm wheeled machines compared to the ones made for the Centauro built MM16 ,
I've yet to find out,
but I'd have no reason to believe the offset apex crown profile would differ on that size wheel,
seeing as the other company down the road making Minimax saws (with vulcanized rubber) state the profile on a similar sized wheel, the 440mm,
in the promo video, aswell as Sam Blasco going through the exact same blade tracking routine/setup, on both flavours of Minimax machines,
as well as the Centauro SP manual ...(the only Centauro manual to state what the profile should be)

I suppose you could just ask, or seek to see if the CO tires from S&S UK are the same as suited as on the Minimax machines,
I'd have no reason to see it would be any different on a MM24 or the CO 600
sega-a-nastro-CENTAURO-CO-600-new-3-600x800.jpg

Technomax...
bandsaw-vertical-centauro-technomax-S600P-L30213.01-e1680610761727.jpg


Or the ones with the Minimax sticker would be any different
Screenshot-2023-12-21 SCM Mini Max S600P Bandsaw 3 Phrase eBay.jpg

And after my own experience, actually having an acting flat profile from dressing my vulcanized rubber like so (not recommended)
the results are very revealing.
I just read an old thread called "the reluctant bandsaw" recently on the Felder owners group,
It kinda sums up my experiences, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "previously unmentioned until recently" profile of the tires might have
changed due to temperature extremes or whatnot, as that crown is obviously very slight.
I dressed mine this summer, in a heat wave and the real rubber acted differently to when I dressed them every other time.

A bit sleepy on my part, still thinking my machine had flat tires, or that flat tires actually work, etc.
as I had the answer already, and could'a heeded ACM's promo video, but I was just wanting to mythbust that idea for myself,
and carry out some more experimentation.

A big red herring!...
and all I had to do was to study the Centauro CO replacement tire I had hidden in a bag.

Well in my defence, it sure looked flat!.
Screenshot-2023-2-19 Dressing bandsaw tires part 1 - YouTube(2).jpgScreenshot-2023-2-19 Dressing bandsaw tires part 1 - YouTube(1).jpg

One can see anticlastic curvature is apparent here, as the profile makes a very notable change when stretched out
SAM_8039.jpgSAM_8049.jpg
The apex of the crown is offset by 1mm,
so unless one reckons this tire from the official UK dealer is a reject...
Then this means there is an acting crown/apex on the wheels,
as one cannot suggest the slight camber evident is to account for anticlastic curvature,
(see Cooks sawmill video below)
i.e creating a totally flat profile when installed.
SAM_8129.jpg

Anticlastic curvature demonstraded below, i.e...(a flat tire will curl up on both sides)
Regards of how it may appear, there is compression on those areas, an acting crown,
but that does not explain why you seemingly don't see the offset apex,
which suggests flat tires with such a slight camber would not be the intention, seeing as they go to the bother of doing so,
surely suggests there are gains for performance also.

[Tom Trees]

Some more pics of my Centauro tire
SAM_7994.jpg

Not really a true reading due to the tongue twisting the tire, and the fact this should be done around a something round,
but it gets the point across.
SAM_8007.jpg


(Cooks sawmill video below for ye to ponder about, demonstrating this phenomenon)
Screenshot-2023-12-24 Sawmill Bandsaw Blade Basics 3 - The Body.jpg

Happy new year folks.

Tom

[Erik Loza]

I have these in my "shopping list" on Amazon...a little more money than that, but posting as an option:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F5GYPTW...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Jim, I noticed those as well and have one minor reservation: Wonder if they actually tested those on a live MM16 or are they just adding the MM16 to their list of “should fit because the saw saw says 16 on it”? Reason I mention this is because there were issues with folks trying Carter 18” tires on the S45N. The issue being that 18” is not quite 450mm, just like 16” is not quite 400mm. The tires ended up being too loose and squishing out. Really curious to know. It would be great to have an alternative to OEM.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

That's a very good point, Erik. I don't need to change mine, but should that ever have to happen, I'mma gonna be careful. Looking at the reviews...apparently they fit, but require adhesive. I wonder if that's because they are a hair loose as you mention to be a possibility.

[Tom Trees]

The new Woodmaster CT blade didn't seem to like being run on those urethane tires, on that MM16 video,
(before the incident, that is)
Once I seen that video, I made my mind up about them, not to mention seeing very similar type tires on some other cheaper machines.
Screenshot-2024-1-1 BLOWOUT - Woodmaster Carbide Band Saw Blade Resawing on a MiniMax MM16 - You.jpg

[Bruce Wrenn]

The new Woodmaster CT blade didn't seem to like being run on those urethane tires, on that MM16 video,
(before the incident, that is)
Once I seen that video, I made my mind up about them, not to mention seeing very similar type tires on some other cheaper machines.
Screenshot-2024-1-1 BLOWOUT - Woodmaster Carbide Band Saw Blade Resawing on a MiniMax MM16 - You.jpg

Before posting, did you READ the banner across video. These are Carter tires, not Blue Max's made for the MM16. Just might make a difference if right tires were installed. A quick call to Blue Max on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday) could answer questions as to are these made to fit the MM16. Couldn't get video to play, so I don't know what is in it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Off topic however I have used the Bluemax tires on the Felder FB510 and Hammer N4400 daws successfully.

Both of the above saws are flat wheel machines.

Regards, Rod

[Tom Trees]

I'd sooner get the the right replacement, as that groove is there to align on the wheels,
as there's chance of a variable camber happening with other flavours (unless one were to check with tramming before glue sets)
Well, that's my impression, but you can speculate other things might be at play here on the Far Eastern machine below...

If it were an Italian wheel which had replaceable tires, like for like...
and not featuring an alignment groove, which you won't see on any Italian machines, as likely all else but modern Centauro tires are being dressed on wheels...

and something pre-crowned was used, like on those Laguna 18bx saws, should someone have done this before,
then there wouldn't be anything else to speculate, why did the replacement wheel work in this case?
The wheel was pulled from the shaft, so nothing changed there.

I guess most wouldn't be bothered to watch the videos, as it would take a few timestamped links, and I ain't searching through that.
Screenshot-2024-1-2 Laguna 18bx Bottom Replacement Wheel Arrived Repair And Final Impressions.jpg

So it would be worth checking that with some sorta lash up, say with a thicker bit of blunt steel or something, clamped to a block
to ensure the edge of the tire might be true, as the edge of the wheel might not be.

Or just check the wheels beforehand and make flush if sound.
SAM_7754.jpg

If one were to try compare those differing profiles, there might be some folks who have replaced tires on their Laguna machines, or older Italian saws with the Cater rubber ones, which might be flat?
It might be the best comparison you'd find between the little crown achieved from anticlastic curvature, vs someone dressing them thereafter.
I've not found that.

PS worth mentioning again the set on the narrower blades will get compressed without dressing.
Though perhaps the urethane tires might have some give compared to the harder rubber, there's a few examples certainly looks so,
Just saying worth seeing the results using a regular non carbide blade before considering.

Even if that might be a non -issue, running such a blade on that profile in which the crown is due to the sides of the tire curling up,
then it sure looks like you'd be damaging them fairly quickly.

(though, I'd not be surprised if all these came with a crown TBH)




All the best
Tom

[Jim Becker]

Tom, my 2003 MM16 made by Centauro has wheels with an alignment groove. There's literally a sticker on the inside of the top door in multiple languages that calls attention to this and the fact that the groove is offset from center, requiring care when installing replacements. And once again, the tires are not crowned.

[Tom Trees]

Sounds like you're agreed with me somewhat on the importance of having the tire being true on the wheel.

Still trying to figure out what you mean here... "the tires are not crowned" as if it's a totally flat profile on the rubber
then it'll be concave when installed.

Perhaps that might be the consensus here, and my spare CO tire should have an apex on centre to account for this.
Seems a bit doubtful as the tongue/groove is offset also.

You can mention again that these are different to the modern CO saws,
but I've shown these photos of the SP wheel before, similar size wheel, same manufacturer, and once again, the manual for the machine,
is the only Italian machine to mention any profile of the tires whatsoever, that I've seen, as only tracking is mentioned on others.
Centauro wheel.jpg

All the best
Tom

[Erik Loza]

Jim, in regards to aftermarket tires, I’m not sure that the groove matters. I mean,it could if someone planned to run a really skinny blade and track it over the spot where the groove was but for wider blades, I can’t imagine it would matter that much. My feeling was always that the factory indexed the groove more as a guide for the assembly line, as to which way to face the wheel during production. If you think about it, tongue-and-groove tires are probably cheaper, from a manufacturing standpoint, than having to glue or vulcanize a tire onto a wheel. I mean, the modern Centauro tires feel more like plastic than rubber (though they should be made from gold-inlaid graphene, for what Parts Pronto asks for them). Anyway, I always assumed they went the went they went for cost reasons rather than any design advantage. All this being said, Rod’s comments are exciting since it seems like Blue Max might actually be offering a legit Metric option for MM owners.

Erik

[Tom Trees]

I forgot to mention that some Meber's came with grooved wheels, like this
The P400 was a Laguna LT16 frame by the looks of things, should it also have grooved wheels, and should they be the same offset groove like the one in the link,
then it might be worth seeing if you can get a few hits i the search regarding choices or what works and what might not.

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f27/m...sought-33734/3

Tom

[Tom Trees]

Tires are a consumable you might say, yet it seems a bit of a task to find some folks replacing the vulcanized flavour
what's now amongst the top choice of saws, i.e if the Laguna LT range is still available, and the SCM formula/Minimax saws, both made by ACM.

I've got a video of my saw not being able to cut a piece of ash, due to me dressing a flat profile on the vulcanized tire,
(The videos of dressing flat tires are there too, for those interested.)
with a new blade which was unused IIRC, the set was compressed just like the other blades I've got,

so it makes it very apparent, the importance of the crown in regards to the saw refusing to cut before dressing a crown on the wheels.
I should'a filmed the same blade cutting the piece thereafter, should one speculate my timber has got drier since.



All the best
Tom