Shop HVAC

[Ron Hampe]

What do you heat your detached shops with?

I converted our detached garage into a wood shop a few years ago and have been heating it with a torpedo heater as needed ever since, but installed a mini-split heat pump this year
and was planning to add a pellet stove but when I contacted my insurance company about the pellet stove they said no to both.

Built in 1986, this is a 38' x 38' concrete block building. Walls are insulated with rockwool and the ceiling fiberglass. Wiring is in EMT and I have a disconnect next to the man door that is shut off when I am not out there.

The person I spoke with at the insurance company had no clue what a mini-split, pellet stove or torpedo heater are. I asked to speak with their underwriter, but sincerely doubt that they are going to let me and have started to look for a new company.

This is southwestern PA and climate change hasn't warmed it up much here yet.

Any suggestions?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I had a Beacon Morris gas tube heater. It only lasted 12 years. I guess I am getting the same thing again in the Mr. Heater brand. I am in a conundrum about heat for the shop at the moment. My AC is a small window unit. I also think about a heat pump but would want to be sure that the dust would not ruin it. A wood stove is on my mind too. The chimney is a big deal. Our town is strict about chimney installations. Insurance company's are usually unwilling to insure a garage with a wood stove.

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[Terry Wawro]

Unless that mini-split can keep up, it looks like you are down to electric or gas heaters. I got by for a few years using a radiant space heater that I keep pointed in the area I was working.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

If I get to build a new shop in the country I hope to put together a 3 fuel, hydronic, comfort heating and cooling system. I want to be able to heat and cool the thermal reservoir with solar electric, wood, or fossil / bio. My goal would be to avoid burning anything as much as possible (Its OK to dream I hope).

[Zachary Hoyt]

My insurance agent found companies that cover both the house and shop even though each has a wood stove in it. You do need a new insurance company, and if you can find a good agent locally they can be a huge help in finding the right company. At the farm where I used to work we inherited from the previous workers an insurance agent who was a complete vegetable, and we were able to get much better prices on our own, so not all agents are helpful.

[roger wiegand]

I currently use a natural gas Hot Dawg with sealed combustion so dust doesn't enter the combustion chamber and a big window air conditioner that I got for free. If I were doing it today I'd install a minisplit. I work in the shop every day and really wouldn't want to mess with a wood stove, nor with the likely degraded air quality in and out of the shop.

My first advice, however, would be to substantially upgrade your air sealing and insulation. A tight building greatly reduces the heating/cooling requirements and makes humidity control much easier. Buy a case of spray foam rattle cans and seal every external penetration in the building, bump your ceiling insulation up to ~R60 with something cheap like blown cellulose, and then consider wrapping the building with 2-4" of rigid foam panels, probably on the interior if you can. Alternately an internal staggered double 2x4 wall filled with blown cellulose can be more cost effective at a cost of some floor space. Concrete block has an R value of about zero, and it's good to try to create a thermal break between the inside and outside.

I did spay foam to deal with the challenges presented by converting a "well ventilated" 1910 35X35 two story hip roof barn, and can get by with a quite small heater that keeps the place very comfortable (~65-68 deg) for $30-50 a month in the coldest months of the year in MA.

[Brian Elfert]

It is hard to get insurance companies to approve indoor wood stoves as primary any more due to the fire risk. Is a pellet stove really less expensive to run than a heat pump, or does the heat pump not produce enough heat when it is really cold? I don't think insurance would have a problem with an outdoor boiler, but that could be pretty expensive to install.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Our agent who was willing to go the extra mile for us has passed away. His company insured the former shop / garage when the wood stove was present. I was required to put the stove on stack of concrete blocks to get the fire box high above the floor to reduce the risk of igniting gas fumes. The car was rarely in the garage /shop but because it had a garage door the rules say no flame source is allowed near the floor.

[Brian Elfert]

If I get to build a new shop in the country I hope to put together a 3 fuel, hydronic, comfort heating and cooling system. I want to be able to heat and cool the thermal reservoir with solar electric, wood, or fossil / bio. My goal would be to avoid burning anything as much as possible (Its OK to dream I hope).

I would suggest looking into geothermal if you don't want to be burning anything. That would get rid of the need to have backup, unless you just want a backup in case of power failure.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

+1 for good insulation! Running my 300 watt electric drying cabinet / wood sterilizer keeps my well sealed and insulated 900 sf building from freezing and will even keep it fairly comfortable if outside if not too cold.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I would suggest looking into geothermal if you want to burning anything. That would get rid of the need to have backup, unless you just want a backup in case of power failure.

For sure! Geo Thermal works well in our area. We even have enough room for the wells or ground loop out at the building site. The up front expense is significant. We have a neighbor who runs his ground loop through a silage pit during winter.
I also dream about digging a deep well with a mule and a rope windlass, like the old-timer in Oil City PA who failed to hit water and kept on digging and digging until he struck oil.

[Jim Becker]

I can see zero sense in the insurance company being concerned with a minisplit...it's a modern, efficient and very safe heating solution that's used in residential settings as well as for utility in shops, etc. It is common for "burning" stoves to be verboten by insurance in many cases these days because the incidence of fires is statistically a lot higher.

I use a minisplit. My insurance company (CSAA affiliated with AAA) only cares about wood stoves and similar.

[Jack Frederick]

How is the mini-split doing with the heat load so far? Are you looking to maintain temp or only when you are out there? NG or LP? How is your dust collection system? Running a mini-splits without is a sure maintenance hassle. If you go gas I’d suggest the Rinnai EX38. It will be slightly undersized but they are excellent and it isn’t always -10*. One of its best features is the vent which is included in the box for walls up to 9.5”. Bigger and you will need the optional 9.5-15.5” vent. Beyond that you are looking at the hanging heater types. Good luck on your insurance search. We have just gone with AAA this year after our long time carrier pulled out of the market.

[Dan Barber]

Agree with Jim on this. OP, I think you need to be talking to your agent on this, not some phone tender at the insurance company. There is no reason a mini-split would cause any issue for insurance purposes.

[Brian Elfert]

Agree with Jim on this. OP, I think you need to be talking to your agent on this, not some phone tender at the insurance company. There is no reason a mini-split would cause any issue for insurance purposes.

It appears the insurance company was concerned about the OP wanting to also add a pellet stove. From the post it doesn't appear the insurance company was concerned about the mini-split.