table saw alignment conundrum

[Cameron Wood]

If that blade was warped 1/16", it would be very obvious.

[Michael Burnside]

If that blade was warped 1/16", it would be very obvious.

That's a lot no matter what, so I'm trying to figure out what the OP is doing.

[glenn bradley]

I know this can be frustrating. I ran that saw for many years. If a windfall would not have made a Saw Stop possible I would still be running it. I made something analog that is similar in function to your DigiAlign here. I also have a thread on here somewhere of me aligning the 22124 at 90* and at 45*.

The fact that your alignment tool and a combo square do not agree is causing some confusion. By now you are familiar with the four bolts that hold the table to the cabinet, the fact that the table top is moved into alignment and not the trunnions, and the fact of how important the washers or shims are at each corner table bolt position. I believe you are rotating the blade so that you are measuring against the same marked tooth area and you are measuring against the blade plate near the tooth and not against the tooth.

All this falls by the way side when you state that the alignment tool run in the miter slot shows one thing and a fixed device like a combo square shows something else when run against the same reference surface. This, of course, should not be possible. The distance between two fixed points does not change just because you measure it with different things. The things may be different but the distance remains the same.

I wish you were closer. I would drop by and we could work through it together. There is something that escapes us. A mystery like this in the past was found to be due to a cracked trunnion casting. Things looked good when the saw was unplugged. The torque of the saw when under load opened the crack and caused things to misalign.

[Bill Dufour]

That DI setup looks fine. Just make sure to run the DI into the work about half travel then set that as zero. You want it to read both positive and negative.
Only problem I see is there is not a good way to move the Di setup with out touching the mounting bar. I prefer to clamp the mount bar to the mitre gauge a and use the mitre handle to move it around.
With my mickey mouse setup I could easily shift the bar 8/1000 by using the bar instead of the handle to push.
How good is your mitre slot slider base you have the Di mounted to. On my big saw a 123 block fit perfect in the slot and helps get stuff aligned. Stuff like the fence.
Bill D

[Brian Runau]

Let me take a step back and make sure I understand.

Using a dial indicator and an alignment jig, everything is OK.
Using a combination square it's off.

Is that correct?

I don't use an alignment jig, but using a dial indicator it reads to within .0005 when I rotate the blade 180 degrees. and it is off using a square. Confusing as hell to me. thanks Brian

[Brian Runau]

I know this can be frustrating. I ran that saw for many years. If a windfall would not have made a Saw Stop possible I would still be running it. I made something analog that is similar in function to your DigiAlign here. I also have a thread on here somewhere of me aligning the 22124 at 90* and at 45*.

The fact that your alignment tool and a combo square do not agree is causing some confusion. By now you are familiar with the four bolts that hold the table to the cabinet, the fact that the table top is moved into alignment and not the trunnions, and the fact of how important the washers or shims are at each corner table bolt position. I believe you are rotating the blade so that you are measuring against the same marked tooth area and you are measuring against the blade plate near the tooth and not against the tooth.

All this falls by the way side when you state that the alignment tool run in the miter slot shows one thing and a fixed device like a combo square shows something else when run against the same reference surface. This, of course, should not be possible. The distance between two fixed points does not change just because you measure it with different things. The things may be different but the distance remains the same.

I wish you were closer. I would drop by and we could work through it together. There is something that escapes us. A mystery like this in the past was found to be due to a cracked trunnion casting. Things looked good when the saw was unplugged. The torque of the saw when under load opened the crack and caused things to misalign.

Confusing as hell to me. I'll let myself sleep on it and see what tomorrow brings. Thanks. Brian

[Brian Runau]

I broke down and purchased a sawstop this morning. spending to much time setting the craftsman up to run, but I want to figure out the problem. Can't try to sell or give it to someone knowiing there's a problem.

Thanks all.

Brian

20231206_110433.jpg

[Doug Garson]

If I understand correctly, you are measuring the distance from the slot to the blade at one location, rotating the blade and you get less than .0005" deflection. This indicates your blade is not warped but does not indicate your blade is parallel to the slot. When you measure the distance from the slot to the blade at the front and back you get a 1/16" difference. This indicates your blade is not parallel to the slot.

[Edward Weber]

Never used a DI on a saw in my life, everyone has their own methods

[mike stenson]

Never used a DI on a saw in my life, everyone has their own methods

The discrepancy is interesting, but hard to tell without seeing both used.. Or perhaps using both.

[Dan Barber]

Congrats on the SS Brain. I think there's a lot of confusing information in this thread. If the blade has less than a thou of runout then there is no need to rotate the balade when setting the table parallel to the blade. The fact that the precision measuring instrument (dial indicator) indicates parallelism from blade to miter slot and the less precision instrument (tir-square) shows that not to be the case is what's most confusing. I wish as another poster said that I lived closer to you, I'd love to help you solve this dilemma! Is there a Creeker that lives in the Indy area that could possibly help Brian out?

[Mark Hennebury]

I can never understand the problem without photos, and while you have a few, not enough to show me what the problem is. Please post more photos of the setups that you are using.

This is an old Craftsman cabinet base trunion mounted to the base unit. Using the digalign unit the blade is parallel to the slot within .0005 Squaring the fence to the slot and making a cut the cut is deeper on the back end of the blade. Drove me crazy until I put a square in the slot and pushed it onto the side of the blade. 1st picture is on the back of the blade 2nd picture is on the front of the blade.

The blade is off by a 1/16" or more.

I can't reconcile this with the digialign reading of .0005.

Appreciate any help. Brian

Attachment 511614Attachment 511615

[Brian Runau]

Congrats on the SS Brain. I think there's a lot of confusing information in this thread. If the blade has less than a thou of runout then there is no need to rotate the balade when setting the table parallel to the blade. The fact that the precision measuring instrument (dial indicator) indicates parallelism from blade to miter slot and the less precision instrument (tir-square) shows that not to be the case is what's most confusing. I wish as another poster said that I lived closer to you, I'd love to help you solve this dilemma! Is there a Creeker that lives in the Indy area that could possibly help Brian out?

I am sure it will be a "Mr. Obvious" moment once I do figure it out and I will, won't quit until I do. Thanks. Brian

[Clint Baxter]

Congrats on the SS Brain. I think there's a lot of confusing information in this thread. If the blade has less than a thou of runout then there is no need to rotate the balade when setting the table parallel to the blade. The fact that the precision measuring instrument (dial indicator) indicates parallelism from blade to miter slot and the less precision instrument (tir-square) shows that not to be the case is what's most confusing. I wish as another poster said that I lived closer to you, I'd love to help you solve this dilemma! Is there a Creeker that lives in the Indy area that could possibly help Brian out?

I'm interpreting this the same as Dan.

I will be visiting my son who lives in Westfield on the 20th and 21st. If you haven't got it figured out by then and still are looking for an answer, let me know with a PM and maybe I can help you determine what the issue is.

Good luck. Clint

[Cameron Wood]

So as Doug Garson points out, you are measuring two different things with the DI and the square, and getting two different results.