Questions about purchasing a used Felder AD741

[Robert Hepburn]

My first post, though I have been a long time off and on lurker.

I was about to finally pull the trigger on getting a Hammer A331 or A341, when a 20 year old "barely" used Felder AD741 became a possibility. It is a 3 phase machine, however, I installed a rotary phase converter in my garage last summer so I think that should be an acceptable method of powering this machine.

Is a 20 year old jointer/planer ancient or does it have many more boardfeet left in it? I'm only a hobbyist and generally take very good care of my equipment, but I do specialize in overkill. I am prepared to buy a shelix cutterhead down the road. I checked with Felder and they do not offer retrofit kits for the helical cutterheads.

I also haven't had much luck in learning what the advantages of the AD741 are over the Hammer series. Only that it's better. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks much,
Bob

[Rod Sheridan]

The older machine will have the following advantages

- four post planer table able to support larger Timbers

- heavier and longer jointer tables

- 2 feed speeds

- probably has power planer table elevation with digital readout ( subject to original option selection)
It probably is a 4 knife cartridge head, they work very well

I would clean and lubricate it, and inspect the planer friction wheel.

If you have a rotary converter make you sure you have the two phases with the control power supply not connected to the manufactured phase.

Regards, Rod

[Patrick Kane]

Hey Robert,
What is the asking price? what year/color is it? Is it the forest green(pre-2003) or the chartreuse (post 2003)?

I hope it's less than the new single phase hammer, and in that case, i wouldnt be scared off by a used machine at all. I actually bought a used Felder saw/shaper years ago that has proved to be a fantastic machine. Mine is of a similar era to the machine you are looking at. It is the light green post-2003/2004. I havent used a hammer JP, but i have used a felder JP(i think it was the 41cm), and i thought it was of acceptable quality. Having used the Felder, i actually dont know that i would want to step down to the hammer, but i think a lot of people like the hammer line. I just question how robust it is and how well it holds its settings. Adjusting and aligning the tables a few times a year would annoy me. Have you compared the weights between the two machines? That can be fairly telling. I would hone in on the design differences between the two fences. A flimsy jointer fence is another very annoying thing to manage, i found. My current jointer is the first machine with an acceptable fence.

Lastly and maybe not an unimportant detail, but what is the estimated delivery time for the hammer? Do you care if you have the machine tomorrow versus August '24?

[Jeff Monson]

My original machine was an A3-31. I sold it and purchased a used AD741 3 phase. I use a Kay converter and its served me well for quite a few years now. For me change over was one of the biggest deciding factor plus the additional capacity. I absolutely love my AD741, night and day between the 2 machines. I got lucky and found a digi drive machine. I would love to find a shelix head for mine, like you said Felder does not support one, but I have seen a couple internet write ups that it can be done. I put in a new friction wheel and knives are the only parts I have had to replace. Any further questions, please feel free.

[Robert Hepburn]

The asking price is $3500 and it is the forest green color. The machine placard shows that the machine was built in 2001. I will call the Felder parts department today and verify that parts are available and will continue to be for sometime. I don't know if this has the powered table. It would great if it did, but that's not a deal breaker for me.

Timing isn't that important. I have a lunch box planer and 6" jointer. Ironically I started this whole process because I wanted to upgrade to helical cutters and for not that much more I could get a Hammer A331 instead of upgrading the cutter heads in my current equipment. It's ironic because this AD741 has the straight knives.

I appreciate the input! The unit is about 4 hours away, so i was considering asking for a video of it jointing and planing a board before wasting a day to find out that there is some sort of major flaw.

[Robert Hepburn]

I'm also interested to know if anyone has upgraded to a helical cutter head and how that turned out. The parts guy I just talked with at Felder indicated that it was not possible and not recommended because it causes overheating problems and power fluctuations. My BS meter went off for that comment. I watched a youtube video of someone installing a Shelix into an AD741 with the same frame color as the one I'm looking it. Seems fairly involved, but not outside of my current skill set.

[Patrick Kane]

A helical/spiral insert cutter does cause more strain on the motor, that isnt BS. Now, is it enough to cause a problem with a 4-5hp motor? Probably not in the way you will use the machine.

Ironically, Robert, my straight knife tersa jointer gives me a better surface finish than my byrd planer head. I might not be so quick to jump to a helical cutter. I think the felder silent cutterblock and SCM's version are significantly better than a byrd head, but that is my experience.

4 hours away is a bit of a bummer. Is this the Bainbridge one?

[Robert Hepburn]

The sales rep told me the silent cutter block would lower power consumption, hence my confusion. If I get the machine I would definitely keep the cutters for as long as they were working well.

Yes, this is for sale in Bainbridge. Do you know anything about this machine?

[Robert LaPlaca]

Is a 20 year old jointer/planer ancient or does it have many more boardfeet left in it? I'm only a hobbyist and generally take very good care of my equipment, but I do specialize in overkill. I am prepared to buy a shelix cutterhead down the road. I checked with Felder and they do not offer retrofit kits for the helical cutterheads.

I own a 20+ year old SCM jointer/planer, use the machine all the time, I don’t even have a guess how many BF of lumber I have feed through the beast. The only repair that has been done, is new set of cutterhead bearings. I would expect a Felder product would have the same longevity..

[Warren Lake]

The invincibles are close to 60 years old and they work great. They will continue on into the future. Maybe one day bearings so far never needed.

[Rod Wolfy]

I bought a used BF631 and used it for years. I moved & sold the machine. It was a good combo machine. I moved & had to sell it. About 8 years later, have a SS & Hammer A341. For Under $4k, I'd jump on the used machine!

[Erik Loza]

Late to this thread but wanted to reinforce Rod Sheridan’s comment regarding phase converters. Felder Powerdrive electronics are VERY particular about current requirements. Mentioning this because I can recall more than one instance where a customer’s rotary converter wasn’t supplying the correct voltage, which rendered the planer table’s servo motor inoperable. I can also state that these are the only brands of phase converter that Felder USA techs considered “trustworthy”:

-Kay Industries/Phasemaster (rotary)
-North American (rotary)
-Phase Perfect (solid state)

Hope this helps,

Erik

[Robert Hepburn]

Thanks, I very much appreciate everyone's input.

If I end up getting the machine, I will definitely follow up on making sure the rotary phase converter is wired correctly to play nicely with the felder. I've only used the RPC a few times to power a 7.5HP electric pressure washer without issue. I'm also pretty sure based on the front picture of the machine that the planer table is not powered. Definitely would have been a nice to have.

Sadly, I'll have to cross my fingers that this machine is still available in the new year, as life has gotten in the way and I won't be able to make a decision until then.

[Warren Lake]

If a machine is good quality I find less of a need for a power table. My SCM planer table up and down is smooth and easy. My general table saws not so., My past progress stroke sander was brutal. Latest italian stroke is power. So moving the past progress up and down was a work out and the table up and down can be up to 30 inches compared to what a planer is. Also matches the roll up windows in my car and truck.

[Robert Hepburn]

That's funny. I recently sold my pro street Nova, which did have rollup windows. I had mentally allocated some of those proceeds towards a nice jointer/planer combo, so it would be fitting to keep the "roll up windows".