Can you draw or take a picture of what you have now? I'm confused by what kind of gap you have. I thought you only had gaps at each end of the board and full contact for most of the length of the boards.
Are your edges rounded across their width?
Contributor
Can you draw or take a picture of what you have now? I'm confused by what kind of gap you have. I thought you only had gaps at each end of the board and full contact for most of the length of the boards.
Are your edges rounded across their width?
Last edited by Rafael Herrera; 11-28-2023 at 9:19 PM.
[OP]
Contributor
I’ll try to get a picture but here’s the best I have now…Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera
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I’ve checked both boards at several points with a square across and it seems square, not rounded. I’ve been looking for a high spot but I can’t see one from either direction. I know it has to be there - somewhere.
Contributor
Do you mean that you have a gap along the length of the joint? did you verify that by trying to insert a piece of paper or a feeler gauge?
Since your faces are rough, there'll be a step where the edges meet, possibly giving an impression of a gap.
Are the edges in wind? If both edges are not in wind, they'll separate at some points along their length when put together. It's not quite like having a high point.
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[OP]
Contributor
I’ll add checking wind to the things to try.
Member
I wouldn't touch a square for this.
Is the bench/planing beam as long as the work?
If the surface is true, then all you need do is see how it lays on the bench, i.e Charlesworth's techniques, hinging or pivoting, rocking, etc
On something thin like laminations for a decently long benchtop, (maximum length capacity, if you will..)
then I like the timber to hinge off the centre, but not pivot, whilst still some friction on the ends of the work yet,
as the material will deflect under it's own weight, and the bench has a very slight crown to it along it's length, what's something like 84" long.
Unnoticable by eye, until timbers are paired to "double the error" , so if going solely by stopped shavings, then check both against each other, from the get go, and well before going anywhere near your lines, as you might likely snipe way too much off the ends if getting used to both hinging, and the timbers characteristics over such a length,
and not with some short lengths either, but the full length of the bench.
The angle poise lamp will serve you well here
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Having two parallel in height lengths, so you can flip one over, should both timbers have a matching bow, then that would show a massive gap.
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Those lamps can be bought very very cheaply, and saves much time.
Being able to see where the high spots are is very easy, as you can project the light on either side of the timber with two fingers bringing the shade where yer lookin.
Fair enough, having a fairly clean shiny benchtop might irk some, but I consider it my surface planer bed.
Last edited by Tom Trees; 11-28-2023 at 10:19 PM.
Contributor
I'm sorry but I don't understand how what you are saying or how it applies in this case.
He's already laminated several boards and now he's trying to join two big boards. See his original post. He's holding the boards in front of his bench, not on top of the bench.
He needs to verify he's shot those edges properly at this point.
Member
Sorry I missed that bit.
Pretty much the same rules apply for joining the halves though.
If gluing, it might be worth giving the top surfaces a lick with a plane, as some cleats for alignment saves a big fight, that you may not win,
DAMHIK
I would have done the bottom aswell, as I left plenty of material, but the glue grabbed before I could wrangle it back to where it was.
Getting pretty cold, need to keep a feel of all that thermal mass, as it may take some time to warm up, hopefully not on the floor.
Good luck
Tom
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Member
Well, they're touching somewhere. If you can't see where, try sliding a feeler gauge or slip of paper along the joint and see where it gets stuck.
I agree with the comment about checking for twist. Twist can cause weird issues that are hard to explain with a straightedge and square. The faces of your boards look rough still - which is fine and normal for doing this kind of work by hand. But it means you can't reliably use a square to check the edges with precision. I'd plane up a couple of winding sticks and use those to check that your edges are not twisted along their length.
Once you have corrected any twist, make sure that you can get a full-length, full-width shaving along each edge. Pay close attention to the shaving as it comes out of the plane- if there are any breaks or narrow spots in the shaving then you are not done yet. Once you get full shavings on both pieces you should be very close - you might have some small gaps at the ends that you'll need to correct by planing the middle only.
Member
I am wondering if this relates to the question I just posted in the 'big shooting board' post. Hand planes do not have infeed and outfeed tables. The end result, especially on longer boards, is a slight crown in the middle. After getting to the point where you take a continuous shaving along the length of the board, you then start in the middle and take passes working your way to a one final long pass. Think I saw a video about this.
robo hippy
Member
If the sole is flat or very slightly convex you can maintain a flat surface with full length shavings, and not have to do stopped shavings. It takes practice and a lot of concentration, focusing on keeping the pressure at the toe as you enter the cut and on the heel as you exit. Otherwise the tendency is to plane more at the ends and you end up with the hump. If the sole of the plane is even slightly concave it will be difficult or impossible to avoid the hump. Better for a plane to be .005" convex than .001" concave.
It's worth practicing because when doing this kind of work you will often need to adjust the squareness of an edge that is already straight. If you create a hump while you are correcting the angle, then you have to go through the whole stopped shaving routing again.
Member
No, not at all. We plane the high spots and avoid the low spots. If you start with a straight edge and develop a hump by planing, your technique is sloppy.
Contributor
Seems like you're beating a dead horse here. Try this, get a fresh piece of lumber and plane that flat and true - your plane is just following a long contour at this point. Then, clamp that to the edge you need to joint. Ride the heel of your plane on the correctly joined piece and the cutter along the wavy piece. Once that edge is straight and true, you can repeat with the matching board.
[OP]
Contributor
Hope I made some progress. Winding sticks were my first tool of choice to diagnose the problem. This revealed two things. A) there was a slight amount of twist in both boards. Nextly, there was a slight bump in the middles of each board. After planing out the twist, I used the cambered #7 to take down the middle and then went over it with the flat blade #5.5. Seemed to help. I chalked it for when I have a helper tomorrow to do the rub together bit.
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Contributor
I have a suggestion to offer up. My history jointing long edges is spotty. I can get them plenty straight, but keeping the edge exactly 90° to the face is tough. Keeping the edge flat (as opposed to crowned) is tough too. What I've started doing is jointing per usual to get a straight edge, then peeling off any imperfections with an edge trimming plane set for a super light cut. It assures the edge is 90° to the face and all I wind up peeling off is the high spots. It's worked surprisingly well.
Disclaimer: I've never done anything as large as you are working with.
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Sharp solves all manner of problems.
[OP]
Contributor
Dont have one of those. Sometimes I cheat and use the fence attached to my LV 5 1/2. I might do a final pass with that.
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