Incessant Fee’s, tip pandering, and Shrinkflation

[Doug Garson]

It's all pure stubbornness. In 1967 Sweden switched from driving on the left side of the road to driving on the right side of the road. Wow, I can't imagine the calamity if the US tried something like that. In Elementary school, I learned the Metric system because President Carter said America was going metric. Of course, that didn't happen and I had to teach myself the Imperial system.

No doubt some of it is stubbornness, I worked for the Canadian subsidiary of a US company for half my working carrier so I'm familiar with the "not invented here" syndrome. But some of it is also the practical aspect of the cost and logistics of making the change and retraining people's brains. I learned the Imperial system all the way thru university. Canada officially went metric in 1975. In reality we are still a hybrid of metric and imperial due in large part to our proximity to the US. I still think in imperial units for most things, maybe I'm stubborn or maybe just a slow learner.

[Bill Howatt]

I think the US is more metric than much of the general population is aware of which is understandable because of packaging and weather reports. As Doug says we are hybrid but I think tending more towards metric possibly because the young generation not having the imperial units background like us old dorks. I remember, and this was some time ago, discussing the temperature in F in a car trip. The high-school student said she didn't know what we were talking about in degrees F. Of course, grocery stores like to advertize meat in $/lb in the big font with $/kg in a small font because it looks cheaper and dual-labelling while convenient for some it discourages conversion. When Canada went officially metric I bought a new non-digital outdoor thermometer and insisted it only be degrees C so I'd get on with it.
I still do my WWing in imperial but I do notice a bit more metric use creeping in and no doubt about it, it is a less error-prone system.

[Edward Weber]

Change is difficult, why is the US the only major industrialized country that has not converted to metric? Why is the UK and a few other countries, mainly former British colonies, still driving on the left?

Well there you have it, it's the people who won't change, noting to do with the economics of the situation.

IMO, change is easy, getting two or more people to agree on the change is like moving a mountain

[Lee Schierer]

Change is difficult, why is the US the only major industrialized country that has not converted to metric? Why is the UK and a few other countries, mainly former British colonies, still driving on the left?

The supposed reason the U.S. didn't go metric was that industry and primarily the automotive industry were pretty much locked in on the Inch system for their tooling. Since then as more goods and machine tools have been imported from metric based nations, nuts, bolts and other fasteners have been coming in metric sizes. Most cars now have metric bolts on the engine.

When we rented a car in England a few years ago I had to learn to drive on the left side while on the right side of the car. It took about a day and a half to get used to driving on the other side. I still had to think about it a bit at intersections and round abouts. We took a trip earlier this year to the Canadian Rockies and rented a car. The speedometer, odometer were both in Kilometers. So were all the road signs. I switched our GPS to metric and we were good to go. No problems. It was actually enjoyable watching the KM's drop away so quickly on longer drives.

[Lee DeRaud]

We took a trip earlier this year to the Canadian Rockies and rented a car. The speedometer, odometer were both in Kilometers. So were all the road signs. I switched our GPS to metric and we were good to go. No problems. It was actually enjoyable watching the KM's drop away so quickly on longer drives.

A lot of cars these days can be switched between miles and kilometers by the owner (or a fumble-fingered mechanic).

A friend of mine is dealing with a situation now where she's trying to sell her deceased sister's car. At some point it got switched to metric for awhile and, while it was in for a smog check, that was the value reported to DMV. Oopsie. It's now back in miles, but the DMV's computer has flagged the VIN as having a rolled-back odometer, which has reduced the value of the car by something like 30%.

[Alan Lightstone]

A friend of mine is dealing with a situation now where she's trying to sell her deceased sister's car. At some point it got switched to metric for awhile and, while it was in for a smog check, that was the value reported to DMV. Oopsie. It's now back in miles, but the DMV's computer has flagged the VIN as having a rolled-back odometer, which has reduced the value of the car by something like 30%.

I had that happen to a Lexus I owned many years ago. The odometer broke, and the dealer replaced it. No question the actual mileage on the car, but it's value plumeted.

Lesson learned. If your odometer breaks, sell the car that day.

[Bill Howatt]

A lot of cars these days can be switched between miles and kilometers by the owner (or a fumble-fingered mechanic).

...

Years ago, my wife cleaned the dash on her old '93 Blazer that had a digital display with a large number in the center for speed. She was driving her son somewhere and he said, "aren't we going kind of fast?". Her cleaning had switched the display to MPH from the required Km/h.

[Jim Becker]

The supposed reason the U.S. didn't go metric was that industry and primarily the automotive industry were pretty much locked in on the Inch system for their tooling. Since then as more goods and machine tools have been imported from metric based nations, nuts, bolts and other fasteners have been coming in metric sizes. Most cars now have metric bolts on the engine..

My understanding was that the automotive industry moved to metric early on because parts production had already become a global sourcing situation.

[Lee DeRaud]

My understanding was that the automotive industry moved to metric early on because parts production had already become a global sourcing situation.

For GM, that goes back at least to the early 1990s: bit of a shock when I discovered my '94 Olds had metric hardware for everything. (Could have been quite a bit earlier, as my car previous to that was Japanese.) There are still some inch-centric measurements, like V8 bore spacing, probably related to legacy production machinery.

[Bill Dufour]

My 73 Volvo was all Inch fasteners except for the fuel injection stuff made in germany. Maybe a few other things like the alternator made by suppliers.
BilL D

[Rich Konopka]

So metric vs. imperial is akin to tipping vs. No tipping??

[Jim Becker]

So metric vs. imperial is akin to tipping vs. No tipping??

That's call "thread wandering"...

[Doug Garson]

So metric vs. imperial is akin to tipping vs. No tipping??

No, hard to change away from a system where servers rely on tips to feed their families is akin to hard to change away from the Imperial system. Short term, status quo is almost always easier than change.

[Edward Weber]

No, hard to change away from a system where servers rely on tips to feed their families is akin to hard to change away from the Imperial system. Short term, status quo is almost always easier than change.

While I don't disagree, the framing is a bit lop sided
"rely on tips to feed their families", seriously?
The argument is not if they get paid but how they get paid and by whom. In either case, it's ultimately the customer.

People get stuck in their ruts, which is not always a good thing. The status quo needs to get shaken up from time to time.
JMHO

[Doug Garson]

While I don't disagree, the framing is a bit lop sided
"rely on tips to feed their families", seriously?
The argument is not if they get paid but how they get paid and by whom. In either case, it's ultimately the customer.

People get stuck in their ruts, which is not always a good thing. The status quo needs to get shaken up from time to time.
JMHO

OK, replace "feed their family" with "make a decent living"? I agree a system where waiters make a decent living and tips are a bonus for extraordinary service would be preferable but getting there from where we are now is not easy and probably not going to happen without a third party imposing a living minimum wage. I think many of the individual restaurants that have tried to make the switch have not been successful and switched back.