Looking for feedback before I buy an Avid CNC

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks for all the help and sharing of wisdom. I went with the Avid, because it’s local, it does what I need, it’s less than half a more robust new one, and it left me $$ to buy another toy…. Wait for it…. Wait for it…. A 3D Scanner. EinScan Pro+ 3D scanner that I stole (not literally) for way less than retail. I already have two clients lined up that want me to replicate some carved rosettes and embellishments in two historic homes.

The CNC included software and licenses, computer, tooling, and the guy is helping me move and set up in my shop.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

…. And of course this morning, after spending $$$ last night on new equipment, we burned up the motor in the jointer!

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks for all the help and sharing of wisdom. I went with the Avid, because it’s local, it does what I need, it’s less than half a more robust new one, and it left me $$ to buy another toy…. Wait for it…. Wait for it…. A 3D Scanner. EinScan Pro+ 3D scanner that I stole (not literally) for way less than retail. I already have two clients lined up that want me to replicate some carved rosettes and embellishments in two historic homes.

The CNC included software and licenses, computer, tooling, and the guy is helping me move and set up in my shop.

Awesome, good luck in your efforts. Two pieces of advice for setting up the AVID, which I've assisted with a couple of times:

1) Check that the liner rail assemblies are parallel to the table by using a precision level and micrometer. If you use their "rail alignment jig" instead, MEASURE them! Both AVIDs I've assisted on the two pieces were 0.005-0.008" off which means the entire rail wouldn't be parallel to the table as it moved from front to back or side to side.
2) Be sure to re-tram the spindle and do it just before you surface a spoilboard.

For (1) I realize they will already be locked into place, but you need to remeasure them and possibly move them if the original owner didn't check the jigs before setting up. This is also needed on the z-axis.

Good luck!

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Michael...take all the time necessary to get that machine perfectly level and square before you even think about running it. It will make a "yuge" difference in performance and reduce the number of "little frustrations" that will get in the way of what is already an impressive learning curve for a new-to-CNC user. This is really one of the single "downsides" to a modular machine but with care, it's not a mountain, only a tiny rise to climb before you start making a mess.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Tanks again for the advice. We are going to move it in one piece on a flatbed, but I will ensure everything was and is square and level.

good news: the jointer just needed a thermal reset. Working again. 11” torrified ash was a bit of a workout for it.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Hello all:

Just posting an update on the Avid CNC. It's installed and running, and I love this thing!!! I am so far very pleased that I went this route as far as cost and what I got for the money. I think I mentioned, but I have worked in places with Laguna Smart CNC's and with a massive mega-$$$$ industrial CNC for which I cannot remember the manufacturer. It was a six-figure machine. Of course the Avid CNC isn't as massive and heavy, but it is extremely accurate. I am making a lot of jigs with it, and I check those jigs by laying them on top of the scale drawing that I used for measurements, and it's exact. The machine does vibrate some, but it's the whole unit that vibrates- not the head versus the bed. The gantry stays accurate to the bed. The legs between the bed and the ground are what vibrate. No big deal for what I'm doing. It will be perfect for cabinet cutting, making jigs, and other simple things for which I intend to use it.

You may remember, I bought this used, and the previous owner helped me get it going, and we have actually become good friends. He made cabinets and furniture with it on a hobby scale, and he said he had asked about this machine before he bought it, and people said it was not heavily built. We both agreed that maybe it isn't as heavily built as a larger steel-framed machine, but it's just as accurate from everything we have seen in using it. When I say accurate, I mean that on a jig 80 inches long, making multiple jigs (door hinge jigs) every one of them came out exactly the same, and exactly on measurement. I stacked the jigs up on top of each other and there was no variance at all. (I made multiple jigs so multiple people can be routing hinges- we are doing a hotel project with 64 rooms.) That's just one example, but a good example of accuracy and repeatability.

Actually, the only issues I've had were all operator error!!!! Did I just admit to that? No. No, I didn't. I never make mistakes. I also never lie.

My table has something similar to a Festool table with 20mm holes for putting cam hold-downs into. That was done by the prior owner. I am going to put T-Track, as I like that a lot better. I screw things down to the MDF to hold them much of the time. That's what we did on the Laguna CNC's I mentioned earlier, as they did not have vacuum hold-downs. Oh, and I did have plans to add a vacuum hold-down system, but right now I'm not going to do that. It works fine as is, and I'm done with running wires and hoses for a while.

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[John TenEyck]

Glad to see you have your machine up and running, Malcolm, and it's meeting your expectations. It truly is amazing what these machines can do. I have a much lighter duty machine even than yours. I have never found an instance where it has not meet my expectations for accuracy or repeatability. I just can't push it as hard as an industrial machine, but for me that's not a big deal.

Anyway, to my point. If your machine is vibrating, and it annoys you, you could look to put a stout shelf on the cross members and load some sandbags on it. Mass is your friend for damping vibration.

John

[Wes Grass]

2 Avids, a 4x8 extended to 12, and another built as 4x16.

I brought my P&W level in to tweak them. Yeah ... not a Starrett 199 ... but calibrated at half the resolution. Or twice? Quote Barbie; "Math is hard" ...

Panel work probably doesn't matter much. I'd be more more worried about straight and square, XY. Simple trig' and cateful use of a tape measure or a good 3 ft scale. There's also the trick of milling a piece and flipping it over ... and back to a dial indicator.

3d, molds 16" deep ....

Maybe didn't matter much for our needs anyway. I did my best ... I think. Hasn't killed anybody AFAIK.

*fingers crossed* ... I know these people and love them like family.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Glad to see you have your machine up and running, Malcolm, and it's meeting your expectations. It truly is amazing what these machines can do. I have a much lighter duty machine even than yours. I have never found an instance where it has not meet my expectations for accuracy or repeatability. I just can't push it as hard as an industrial machine, but for me that's not a big deal.

Anyway, to my point. If your machine is vibrating, and it annoys you, you could look to put a stout shelf on the cross members and load some sandbags on it. Mass is your friend for damping vibration.

John

It isn’t a lot of vibration- mainly when it does a quick z axis shift I notice it. Right now I’m good with it- just thought I would mention it because I did notice it, but as long as the gantry doesn’t move relative to the bed, it has no real impact on the outcome.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

2 Avids, a 4x8 extended to 12, and another built as 4x16.

I brought my P&W level in to tweak them. Yeah ... not a Starrett 199 ... but calibrated at half the resolution. Or twice? Quote Barbie; "Math is hard" ...

Panel work probably doesn't matter much. I'd be more more worried about straight and square, XY. Simple trig' and cateful use of a tape measure or a good 3 ft scale. There's also the trick of milling a piece and flipping it over ... and back to a dial indicator.

3d, molds 16" deep ....

Maybe didn't matter much for our needs anyway. I did my best ... I think. Hasn't killed anybody AFAIK.

*fingers crossed* ... I know these people and love them like family.

That is a big machine! I planned to extend this to 9 feet, but now I think that may be a while before I have that need.

[Wes Grass]

I've posted before. We didn't have room in the building. We brought in a shipping container with double end doors, and dual folding doors on one side. Blocked it 'level' with wood, and built the router inside. Idea was we could drag it onto a flat bed, drop it off elsewhere and need nothing other than a cord to have it up and running.

12" long 1/2" ball endmill in the Avid spindle. Milling glued up stacks of MDF, hand finished and sealed with epoxy, any runout or accuracy issues ... just weren't an issue. One mold was a dumpster full of scrap. I wish I'd taken pictures ... but 'NDA' ...

Not that I don't have any ;-)

[Jim Becker]

It isn’t a lot of vibration- mainly when it does a quick z axis shift I notice it. Right now I’m good with it- just thought I would mention it because I did notice it, but as long as the gantry doesn’t move relative to the bed, it has no real impact on the outcome.

That movement is from the inertia of the gantry and spindle head's mass moving and then stopping. That's where the heavier welded machines come into play since their rapids are a lot mo' rapid than the small machines. For those of us who do "non industrial" work, it's not a big compromise, IMHO. I'd want a heavier, more robust machine for true production, however, because all that movement that's constant will most certainly start to affect machine accuracy when, not if, fasteners start to "self adjust" on a bolt-together design. So if you get the business to where you are really doing more production stuff, an upgrade conversation will likely become reality. "Right tool for the actualy job", as it were. In the meantime, AVID's machines are amazingly adaptive and well designed ... and affordable.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That movement is from the inertia of the gantry and spindle head's mass moving and then stopping. That's where the heavier welded machines come into play since their rapids are a lot mo' rapid than the small machines. For those of us who do "non industrial" work, it's not a big compromise, IMHO. I'd want a heavier, more robust machine for true production, however, because all that movement that's constant will most certainly start to affect machine accuracy when, not if, fasteners start to "self adjust" on a bolt-together design. So if you get the business to where you are really doing more production stuff, an upgrade conversation will likely become reality. "Right tool for the actualy job", as it were. In the meantime, AVID's machines are amazingly adaptive and well designed ... and affordable.

All good points. I am still glad I went with this machine. The plan is grow the business before upgrading. The vibration is mostly on the Z axis movement when doing tabs, so it goes up and down for the tabs.

[Jim Becker]

All good points. I am still glad I went with this machine. The plan is grow the business before upgrading. The vibration is mostly on the Z axis movement when doing tabs, so it goes up and down for the tabs.

No question it was the right choice for you...I hope I didn't sound like I was suggesting otherwise, because I wasn't!

If you're using straight sided tabs, try tapered tabs...smoother operation because the spindle can keep moving laterially while the uppy-downy thing happens. In Vectric's software, that's a 3D tab. I use them 98% of the time and only do a straight sided tab when there's a need for extreme strength.

[Carl Beckett]

I am a hobby user so absolute max speed is not that critical for me. As such, I changed various jog speeds and ramps to slow them down and transition more smoothly. Overall I do not run at anything close to the max the system is capable of.

The system runs more smoothly and is more under control. I would argue acceleration forces are less, resulting in less wear/tear on the system throughout.