Some electric cars have a road trip problem.

[Warren Lake]

my saturn cost 2k, five years later and 76,000 kilos with tires and brakes and stabilizer links I have 3k into it. Gas averages 38 MPG canadian galons summer less in the winter. If i had bough an EV id pay some large amount of money, more in tax than I paid for the saturn and I could sell it tomorrow for 2k but wouldnt as the money saved put more machines in my shop.

Cost is more than just operating costs. On top the EV would have been through the same tire wise or more as they go through tires more at least based on what I read

[Patty Hann]

Some people are determined to hate electric vehicles...


Interestingly, there's an emerging market for electric tractors in agriculture. Why? They have 1/3 the operating cost of ICE tractors.

When I asked one particular farmer about the challenges associated with electric vehicles, he told me "for 1/3 the operating cost, we'll figure it out."

With any technology, some people are early adopters, most will adopt with the majority, a few never will.

Re: Electric vehicles in general....I'm willing to wait until they "figure it out".... and it would have to be most (if not all) the "its", not just a a few.
I'm not willing to be the guinea pig they figure it out on, especially where my money is involved.

[Jimmy Harris]

It depends on where you're located, but they can indeed be a problem in certain areas. However, if you know this ahead of time and plan accordingly, it's not something you can't work around.

This is one of those "problems" that few people will actually have to deal with and will become less and less of a problem as time goes by.

Most people who own fully electric vehicles right now have a good bit of disposable income. So I doubt very many are driving long distance road trips when they could afford to fly. If a road trip takes longer than two to three days, it's usually cheaper to fly anyway. And I bet most of them have an ICE vehicle in their garage for road trips anyway. Everyone I know who owns a Tesla also owns a German made gas SUV, which is a little weird, but okay.

My brother just took his Tesla from coast to coast (moved two months ago) and didn't have any issues. He had to plan it out ahead of time, but it wasn't hard with the apps they provide.

[Patty Hann]

It depends on where you're located, but they can indeed be a problem in certain areas. However, if you know this ahead of time and plan accordingly, it's not something you can't work around.
Most people who own fully electric vehicles right now have a good bit of disposable income. .

^^^THIS^^^...right there.
Most people in general do NOT have "a good bit of disposable income." They don't even have a "less good bit".
If they have even a little it goes to more immediate, pressing needs. No way are they going to by an "iffy charger available" EV.
Very often it is preferable to deal with the devil you know, rather than with the one you don't know.

"BlastPoint found in a three-part examination that people ready to buy an EV have an average annual income of $150,000. The median household income in the US in 2018 was $63,179, according to the U.S. Census. “Ready-to-Buys are typically professionals working in white-collar careers. Apr 30, 2021"
https://www.tdworld.com/electrificat...poor-americans

FWIW my income is a fraction below that $63179 ... no way am I buying an EV any time soon.

[Doug Garson]

Could it be that higher income people are just smarter when it comes to their money? Here's a quote from Consumer Reports on a comparison of the cost of ownership of EVs vs ICE vehicles. Note the average cost of a new vehicle in the US is $48,008 according to Kelly Bluebook.

"The nine most popular EVs on the market under $50,000 were compared to (1) the best-selling,(2) the top-rated, and (3) the most efficient vehicles in their class. For six of the nine EVs analyzed, the first-owner ownership costs are estimated to be lower than those of all three comparable ICE vehicles in their class. For all nine EVs analyzed, the first-owner ownership costs are estimated to be lower for at least one of the three comparable ICE vehicles. In many cases, the EVs matched or exceeded the performance of some of the top-performing ICE vehicles in their class. For all EVs analyzed, the lifetime ownership costs were many thousands of dollars lower than all comparable ICE vehicles’ costs, with most EVs offering savings of between $6,000 and $10,000. While new EVs were found to offer significant cost savings over comparable ICE vehicles, the cost savings of 5- to 7-year-old used EVs was found to be two or three times larger on a percentage savings basis.Overall, these results show that the latest generation of mainstream EVs typically cost less to own than similar gas-powered vehicles, a new development in the automotive marketplace with serious potential consumer benefits."

So maybe as Dylan said "The Times they are a-changin"

[Keegan Shields]

Re: Electric vehicles in general....I'm willing to wait until they "figure it out".... and it would have to be most (if not all) the "its", not just a a few.
I'm not willing to be the guinea pig they figure it out on, especially where my money is involved.

Haha me too. We would be classified as laggards when it comes to EVs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno...ion_life_cycle

[roger wiegand]

People without a lot of money don't buy new cars, chances are good that those who can't afford to buy a typical new electric for $35K can't afford to buy a typical new ICE car for $35K either, and so won't buy either. Doesn't matter that they might save money some time in the future, if you don't have it today, you don't have it (been there, done that!). It's one of the advantages of being rich that you can think like an economist and make the choice that will save you money over the next decade. A decade ago I put a bunch of money into solar panels, its turned out to be one of the better financial decisions I ever made, the return on investment is kicking the stock market's butt-- and we didn't even qualify for any tax credits on our panel purchase. Because it required a significant outlay of cash up front it was, and is, an opportunity largely unavailable to people without a lot of money-- just as participating in the absurd returns that the hedge fund guys bring in is way beyond my ability to participate.

That said, a year into ownership the advantages of an electric car seem overwhelming (financially it actually seems to be a break even because of our very high electric rates in MA, but the fastness, comfort, quietness, and ease of use are just amazing), I can't imagine a scenario where I'd go back. There's a ton of money to be made in the transition, so I'm pretty confident that the investments will be made to provide the required infrastructure. The John D. Rockefellers of 120 years ago are among us today figuring out how to plug in all those cars and get rich from it. Because of their relative simplicity electric cars will soon be substantially cheaper than similarly powerful and comfortable gas cars (they are already pretty much the same, not even counting tax rebates), with the spread of appropriate infrastructure I'd predict we'll see an inversion in the market such that 80% of vehicles sold will be electric before you can believe it. (somebody check me in a decade if I'm still around!)

FWIW, I found that as soon as I experienced the reality of using an electric as my everyday and long trip vehicle all my prior worrying about range anxiety and the inconvenience of charging stops just disappeared, becoming, as I said earlier, a complete non-issue, something I never think about now.

[Doug Garson]

I don't buy new either, last new car I bought was in 1973. But I wonder if some people buying a used car and financing it, reject a more expensive EV because it will cost $50 a month more in loan payments without considering it will save them $75 a month in fuel?

[Patty Hann]

Could it be that higher income people are just smarter when it comes to their money? Here's a quote from Consumer Reports on a comparison of the cost of ownership of EVs vs ICE vehicles. Note the average cost of a new vehicle in the US is $48,008 according to Kelly Bluebook.

"The nine most popular EVs on the market under $50,000 were compared to (1) the best-selling,(2) the top-rated, and (3) the most efficient vehicles in their class. For six of the nine EVs analyzed, the first-owner ownership costs are estimated to be lower than those of all three comparable ICE vehicles in their class. For all nine EVs analyzed, the first-owner ownership costs are estimated to be lower for at least one of the three comparable ICE vehicles. In many cases, the EVs matched or exceeded the performance of some of the top-performing ICE vehicles in their class. For all EVs analyzed, the lifetime ownership costs were many thousands of dollars lower than all comparable ICE vehicles’ costs, with most EVs offering savings of between $6,000 and $10,000. While new EVs were found to offer significant cost savings over comparable ICE vehicles, the cost savings of 5- to 7-year-old used EVs was found to be two or three times larger on a percentage savings basis.Overall, these results show that the latest generation of mainstream EVs typically cost less to own than similar gas-powered vehicles, a new development in the automotive marketplace with serious potential consumer benefits."

So maybe as Dylan said "The Times they are a-changin"

Someone who makes 2.5 times what I make is not necessarily smarter with their money.
The person either has a job that pays 2.5 times what I make or the "person" is a couple whose combined income is 2.5 times what I (a single person) makes.
Someone has to build those Teslas and maintain the machines that test them and all the auxiliary test and calibration equipment.
The Tesla engineers may make $155K, but I can promise you that no manufacturing technician makes anywhere near $155K, more like $75-$85K.
(And the robots that assemble them still have to be maintained by, yep, techs)

I have 2006 Corolla with 120K miles... it's paid for... it's been paid for since 2009 when I bought it ("used" with 18K miles on it) .
There is no way my financial advisor is going to be OK with me spending 50K on a car when I already have a perfectly good car; in fact, he would seriously question my "smarts".

[Keegan Shields]

When cars were brought to market, very few could afford them. Give it time, EVs will come down in price and a secondary market will develop for used EVs. Now that the larger car manufacturers are producing EVs, my guess is this price drop will accelerate.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I'm thinking about an EV when I need to replace my Outback. It's a 2013, so I hope it will be economical to keep driving it for a few more years, but it pays to think ahead as a one-car-one-driver household since there is sometimes not a lot of time when the shoe pinches, as it were. I've always been a used car buyer because that was what I could afford to pay cash for and I was saving all I could to buy a house, but now that I am here with the house all paid for my savings are creeping up again. Economically it might be wiser to buy another used Subaru, since I drive somewhat less than the average American, but it'll be a long time before used EVs are widely available, I imagine, and the incentives are mostly for new ones, I think. It seems like the road trip issue is a bit easier if you're just one car not a group traveling together like in the article.

[Patty Hann]

Local guinea pig (Scottsdale AZ)

SCOTTSDALE, AZ (3TV/CBS 5) — A Scottsdale woman brought her Tesla in for repairs. When she got the car back, a key system no longer worked and she couldn’t get Tesla to fix the problem. That’s when she called in On Your Side.**

Erine Erickson loves her Tesla Model 3. But these days, the EV stays parked in her garage. “It’s, you know, 3,000 pounds of metal in a parking spot downstairs,” she said.
Erickson’s problem started last month when the battery on her Tesla died. She took it to Tesla, and they replaced the battery for free under their warranty. However, during the process, Tesla technicians turned off the key feature that allows Tesla drivers to supercharge their vehicles in 15 minutes. Erickson says she didn’t find out until she stopped at a supercharger station and could not charge her Tesla. “That’s when people saw me and came up to me and people were trying to troubleshoot it,” she said. “But nobody had ever seen anything like it.”
Turns out, Tesla had intentionally deactivated Erickson’s supercharger feature for safety reasons. Here’s why. When replacing Erickson’s battery, Tesla says they discovered that Carfax listed her car as having a salvaged title due to being totaled in a collision. As a result, Tesla removed the supercharger feature as a safety precaution.

If my car were [mistakenly] listed as "totaled", I'm pretty sure I'd still be able to buy gas for it.

**local TV station that "advocates" for consumers with businesses that are reluctant, slow, or truculent in dealing with customer complaints.
So her ($40K? $50K) EV is unusable for a month, and only when she publicly shames Tesla does Tesla act to investigate the problem.

[Doug Garson]

Local guinea pig (Scottsdale AZ)

SCOTTSDALE, AZ (3TV/CBS 5) — A Scottsdale woman brought her Tesla in for repairs. When she got the car back, a key system no longer worked and she couldn’t get Tesla to fix the problem. That’s when she called in On Your Side.**

Erine Erickson loves her Tesla Model 3. But these days, the EV stays parked in her garage. “It’s, you know, 3,000 pounds of metal in a parking spot downstairs,” she said.
Erickson’s problem started last month when the battery on her Tesla died. She took it to Tesla, and they replaced the battery for free under their warranty. However, during the process, Tesla technicians turned off the key feature that allows Tesla drivers to supercharge their vehicles in 15 minutes. Erickson says she didn’t find out until she stopped at a supercharger station and could not charge her Tesla. “That’s when people saw me and came up to me and people were trying to troubleshoot it,” she said. “But nobody had ever seen anything like it.”
Turns out, Tesla had intentionally deactivated Erickson’s supercharger feature for safety reasons. Here’s why. When replacing Erickson’s battery, Tesla says they discovered that Carfax listed her car as having a salvaged title due to being totaled in a collision. As a result, Tesla removed the supercharger feature as a safety precaution.

If my car were [mistakenly] listed as "totaled", I'm pretty sure I'd still be able to buy gas for it.

**local TV station that "advocates" for consumers with businesses that are reluctant, slow, or truculent in dealing with customer complaints.
So her ($40K? $50K) EV is unusable for a month, and only when she publicly shames Tesla does Tesla act to investigate the problem.

I think that is more an Elon Musk/Tesla problem than an EV problem. I recall reading about a former senior Tesla mechanic/engineer who services and repairs Teslas. Some consider him to be the ultimate expert on servicing Teslas, people ship their Teslas across the country to have him do the service. Tesla refuses to sell parts to him so he salvages parts from Teslas that are written off or has copies of parts made by local machine shops. I've also seen videos of a guy who rebuilds wrecked Teslas and he can't buy parts from Tesla and they won't turn on supercharging for the vehicles he has rebuilt. Musk doesn't play well with others.

[Doug Garson]

I have 2006 Corolla with 120K miles... it's paid for... it's been paid for since 2009 when I bought it ("used" with 18K miles on it) .
There is no way my financial advisor is going to be OK with me spending 50K on a car when I already have a perfectly good car; in fact, he would seriously question my "smarts".

Agreed, I also buy used and keep them until they are no longer reliable or my needs change. I parted with my 1976 280Z in about 1988 when I needed an SUV. I'm currently driving a 2009 Murano, I considered trading it last fall to get a more efficient hybrid with some of the new safety and convenience features. Both the new and used car market was so overpriced that I'm still driving the Murano. So I'm not suggesting you get rid of a perfectly good car. But, when it is time to get a new (used) car, I think your financial adviser would agree, the smarter thing to do is consider the lifetime ownership cost not just the off the lot cost when deciding what to buy. The CR report found that most EVs both new and used, have lower 5 year ownership costs than comparable ICE vehicles.

[Patty Hann]

Haha me too. We would be classified as laggards when it comes to EVs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno...ion_life_cycle

Laggards.... HAHA...they (we) are the ones who like to watch what happens when "The Law of Unintended Consequences" takes effect (as it inevitably does).
In an earlier era we would have been called Luddites....(except I have no desire to go about smashing charging stations. )