Some electric cars have a road trip problem.

[Doug Garson]

I think one thing the anti EV crowd overlooks is that oil is a global commodity and thus gas prices are mainly driven by global supply and demand. Like Perry said all it takes is for the middle east conflict to expand and gas prices will skyrocket. Electricity prices are much more local especially if it is renewable. I live in BC where almost all our electricity is from renewables (mainly hydro) a war in the middle east will have virtually no impact on my electricity bill but my gas prices could double. If you want energy independence you have to eliminate oil unless you are willing to nationalize your oil industry (good luck with that ) and then you can control gas prices independent of global influences.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm looking out the back door at the hi rise apartment complex and wondering how all those cars in the parking lot are going to charge.
As a landlord myself, I can assure you of one thing, the landlord(s) won't be paying to run electric to the parking lot so tenants can charge their EVs.

[roger wiegand]

I'm looking out the back door at the hi rise apartment complex and wondering how all those cars in the parking lot are going to charge.
As a landlord myself, I can assure you of one thing, the landlord(s) won't be paying to run electric to the parking lot so tenants can charge their EVs.

It's my understanding of the economics of rental housing that the tenants pay for everything, plus a little added profit for the landlord.

[Bill Howatt]

My only comment on this rather complex situation is that right now we are likely just into the "golden age" of EVs where there are subsidies, no road taxes previously derived from gasoline, and the infra-structure hasn't been totally overloaded along with increased regulations. This is not an uncommon stage in new technologies being introduced such as the first automobiles, airlines.
In other words, the real impact has yet to be felt.

[Jim Becker]

Now every soccer mom has an SUV and dad has a F250 or up.

Hah! In horse country...that's reversed. The "mom" has the F250 to haul her big GN trailer and "dad" has the SUV or Sedan to commute to work away from the home.

[Jim Becker]

I'm looking out the back door at the hi rise apartment complex and wondering how all those cars in the parking lot are going to charge.
As a landlord myself, I can assure you of one thing, the landlord(s) won't be paying to run electric to the parking lot so tenants can charge their EVs.

I can tell you that at least for new multi-family housing builds, local Planning Commissions and Zoning Commissions are quickly adding requirements to provide vehicle charging in order to get projects approved. I'm on a local Planning Commission and this is an active topic and action. It's more difficult for existing multi-family housing situations, but savvy property owners absolutely know that they are going to need to support this in order to be competitive and get the level of rent they want to achieve into the future. So yes, those property owners absolutely will be paying to install charging for electrified vehicles; it may not be tomorrow, next week or next month, but they will do it because otherwise, folks will not want to live there because of the lack of the facilities. It's a classic supply and demand issue. While the demand is lower "right now" and the incentive isn't what it needs to be (yet), that will change and so will the property owner's business decisions.

[Rich Engelhardt]

It's my understanding of the economics of rental housing that the tenants pay for everything, plus a little added profit for the landlord.

True to a point. Someone other than the tenant though has to pay for the electrician to install the wiring.
In all but one of our rental houses, this is going to mean upgrading the panel - as well as running the actual wiring for the Level 2 charger.
That a couple to a few thousand dollars.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Now thats funny. You would put in out door jacuzzis for the right increase in rent. When the complex down the road puts in chargers, the pressure will be on landlords. Those who don't will be stuck with tenants who have the older cars and eventually with the lower financial classes of tenants. As a landlord, I let a tenant install a line so he could plug in his employers truck (frozen food delivery ) Tenant got his employer to pay the electrician. for the install. And employer paid the tenants electric bill. When the tenant left, I still had the 50 amp line to use with my camper/ welder, etc..

[Rich Engelhardt]

I can tell you that at least for new multi-family housing builds, local Planning Commissions and Zoning Commissions are quickly adding requirements to provide vehicle charging in order to get projects approved. I'm on a local Planning Commission and this is an active topic and action. It's more difficult for existing multi-family housing situations, but savvy property owners absolutely know that they are going to need to support this in order to be competitive and get the level of rent they want to achieve into the future. So yes, those property owners absolutely will be paying to install charging for electrified vehicles; it may not be tomorrow, next week or next month, but they will do it because otherwise, folks will not want to live there because of the lack of the facilities. It's a classic supply and demand issue. While the demand is lower "right now" and the incentive isn't what it needs to be (yet), that will change and so will the property owner's business decisions.

I can see it for new - but - retrofitting existing? Not real likely.
I just don't have any idea how an open parking lot could even begin to be wired for charging.

[Mike Henderson]

I can see it for new - but - retrofitting existing? Not real likely.
I just don't have any idea how an open parking lot could even begin to be wired for charging.

I know a guy who owns an apartment building (with others) and they started getting pressure to put in charging stations. It was impossible to do it and have the chargers connected to each unit's electrical system, so they put in "pay" chargers in one spot in the parking area. They said they had some problems getting the power company to put in the lines for the chargers but got it done.

He also said that if they reached a point were there weren't enough chargers, they could do more in a different spot in the parking lot. They had their own parking area and the parking lot was behind a fence with access control. Only tenants had access cards for the parking lot.

He told me that they were losing tenants because of the lack of chargers and that pushed them to install the first set. They were able to keep their rents up because having chargers in the parking lot made the building more attractive. For the tenant, charging will be more expensive than if they were hooked to their power, but it's better than having to find chargers "out in the wild".

Mike

[Doug Garson]

I can see it for new - but - retrofitting existing? Not real likely.
I just don't have any idea how an open parking lot could even begin to be wired for charging.

It is certainly a challenge but not the only one facing homeowners. My brother in law lives in a townhouse complex that is facing the challenge to upgrade the electrical supply to the whole complex as well as all the units. Not just to add EV charging but to support air conditioning which was considered unnecessary when the complex was built 25 or so years ago and now is becoming necessary. Kinda think if we started going EV 25 years ago maybe we wouldn't need AC now.

[Jim Becker]

I can see it for new - but - retrofitting existing? Not real likely.
I just don't have any idea how an open parking lot could even begin to be wired for charging.

As Mike just mentioned, it's going to happen if they want to retain tenants and be able to garner market rent. Again, not tomorrow or next week or next month, but they will have to find a way to provide vehicle charging at some point.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The "if" is the operative factor here.

I can see where part of the apartment complex behind me could install some sort of charging in the covered parking area. I don't see it as widespread and I don't see it happening any time soon.

We are still reeling from a whopping 35% increase on property values that's going to take a long time to get back via rent increases.
On top of the already over the top expenses for maintaining the places.
Water heaters have tripled in price over the last 4 years. A/C units and furnaces are nearly double.
Any sort of electrical and/or plumbing work costs an arm and a leg.

Anyhow - I really doubt I'll live long enough to have the issue land in my lap.

[Jim Becker]

The bottom line is that it's a business decision, Rich, and when it happens will be predicted by the effect on the business if the resource isn't there.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Jim - correct, it is a business decision & I have been in that business since 2003 and I have been a member of the Lake Erie Landlord's Association since 2003 also.
LELA is a professional association of landlords that meet monthly to discuss matters like this.
Usually a professional in that area is brought in to give us a talk and answer questions.

So - I'm saying that from the prospective of a landlord, who is a member of a professional association of landlords, comprised of members that own anything from a single house to as many as 4500 units - - I don't see retrofitting happening in anywhere near the numbers people on the outside of the business think it will.

You've always impressed me as a stand up guy & I really believe that, as a member of zoning & planning, you have the best interests of everyone in mind.
I suggest as such, you contact a professional association of landlords and talk to them.
I believe that would be a win/win situation.

I don't dispute the fact that EVs are coming, like it or not.
I do dispute the idea that landlords will have no choice in the matter - either put in a charger or lose out.
For many landlords, their way of coping will be to just get out of the business. (my choice since I'm too old at this point to wait on a return of my investment)

For many other's, there is just simply no way they can afford to have it done by someone that knows what they are doing, so they'll go to Lowes and buy a screwdriver, some wire and maybe a VOM meter and become an instant electrician.

This is not a simple issue and the answer if far more complex that just thinking "do it or lose out".