Used Felder K700 S

[Jeremy Toomey]

Looking at a used 2017 Felder K700 S for $8500. Would replace a SawStop cabinet saw and separate router table. I am in Idaho and the saw is back east so I won't be able to look at it in person. It is being sold because he is retiring. Seems to have every attachment known to man included. Looks in reasonable shape. I have no sense of this market and therefore no idea what is a fair price for this. It would appear to be a saw that would be upwards of $17,000 new which makes $8500 seem fairly reasonable. Just looking for a bit of advice on the price. Seller has been very responsive to email and is offering to wrap it up and ship it to me for $380 which also seems reasonable. Saw description is below.

Felder KF 700 S Professional panel saw spindle moulder
Year 2017
Single phase 4 hp
Mechanical scoring unit
Dials for angles in hand wheels
49" rip capacity
2800mm (9'2") slider with remote start
Multi-fine adjustment for shaper fence
Fine adjustment for saw fence

The accessories are almost new. Some have never been used, others with light use:

F-38 power feeder with tilt away mounting bracket (run once)
Handle for sliding table
Edging shoe
2 crosscut stops
2 eccentric clamps
Table extension with 'F' coupling (6"x20")
Transport/mounting unit for outrigger
Tenoning plate

I am also aware that Felder will set up new saw purchased through them for a fee. Any idea if they will do that on a used machine?

Thanks in advance

Jeremy

[Jesse Brown]

I can't advise on the price, but the folks on the Felder Owners Group might be able to.

BTW, I'm a hobbyist, and I bought a Hammer saw/shaper thinking it would eliminate the "need" for a router table. It didn't .

[Mike King]

Does it have the shaper hood? While it has 2 eccentric clamps, you will likely find it a fantastic upgrade to get the following:

1. A set of Mac Campsure's Airtight clamps (~~$2.5k). https://www.airtightclamps.com/products
2. A set of Brian Lamb's parallel guides -- get the digital ones ($2.6k). https://lambtoolworks.com/parallel-fences
3. A digital upgrade to the crosscut fence from Brian Lamb (~~$1.5k). https://lambtoolworks.com/dro-flipstop

You didn't mention what year of construction the KF is. After sometime in 2007, Felder upgraded the KF to use a double trunnion system. The spindle on the shaper also changed. Prior to 2003, the slider was not an Xroll slider. I personally wouldn't want to pay that price for a pre 2007 saw.

Far from the unit having every accessory possible, it appears to me to be a pretty basic saw and missing some items that make it far more convenient to use. Name power drive on the spindle -- a digital reference for height of the spindle is something that makes setup and repeatability of the shaper far easier.

I also suggest that you move your inquiry over to the Felder Owners Group -- there are a lot more folk with experience to help you really investigate the economics of this unit. (https://groups.io/g/felderownersgroup/topics)

Mike
Felder CF741, FB510, RL120

[Erik Loza]

With all those accessories, a 2023 version of that machine would be close to $30K. Whether or not it's actually worth it to you is a personal decision.

As far as hiring a Felder tech to commission it for you, since you are not the original buyer, you would be paying "over-the-counter" pricing. Based on your location, I would guesstimate at least several thousand dollars in travel, alone. Again, your decision. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Mike King]

FYI, there is a Felder technician in Idaho now -- not sure exactly of his location, but there was one there in June.

You can set the machine up yourself. This video guide on how to calibrate the slider is quite useful: https://youtu.be/9s2a02XI3BQ?si=Ln6O8XvNcHmIHITR

Also quite useful is the Felder Survival Guide, written by David Best, the guy who made the video above. On the Felder Owner's group you can send him a message about acquiring it -- it is no longer in print...

Mike

[Jeremy Toomey]

I can't advise on the price, but the folks on the Felder Owners Group might be able to.

BTW, I'm a hobbyist, and I bought a Hammer saw/shaper thinking it would eliminate the "need" for a router table. It didn't .

Thanks. I'll check over there and see what they have to say.

[Jeremy Toomey]

Erik. Thanks for the info. I assumed getting it commissioned would be spendy.

Mike. Thanks for the recs on accessories and the video link. I'll see what the felder group has to say on the price but it seems reasonable.

[Aaron Inami]

I think the price of $8500 for this is very nice. However, I would be very careful about how this is shipped. A shipping cost of $380 is not a lot for a 1700 lb machine that is going to be supposedly secured to a heavy duty pallet, plus the 11 foot box/crate for the slider. Having this shipped half way across the USA means the shipper is going across multiple state lines. If something happens, shipping insurance is somewhat of a fantasy and you could end up being out $8500. Your only recourse would be to sue the shipping company -- which becomes complicated since it occurred through multiple states.

For reference, it cost me $1600 to hire an insured rigging company to transport a brand new K700S around 90 miles and deliver it into my garage SAFELY with a fork lift. These are not machines that you can hang off a trucking lift gate and expect it to go perfectly. That is not to say that you would have problems, but the risk of loss is pretty high. If a shipping company is charging $380, they likely do not know how to palletize and handle these types of heavy machinery.

[Richard Coers]

I think the price of $8500 for this is very nice. However, I would be very careful about how this is shipped. A shipping cost of $380 is not a lot for a 1700 lb machine that is going to be supposedly secured to a heavy duty pallet, plus the 11 foot box/crate for the slider. Having this shipped half way across the USA means the shipper is going across multiple state lines. If something happens, shipping insurance is somewhat of a fantasy and you could end up being out $8500. Your only recourse would be to sue the shipping company -- which becomes complicated since it occurred through multiple states.

For reference, it cost me $1600 to hire an insured rigging company to transport a brand new K700S around 90 miles and deliver it into my garage SAFELY with a fork lift. These are not machines that you can hang off a trucking lift gate and expect it to go perfectly. That is not to say that you would have problems, but the risk of loss is pretty high. If a shipping company is charging $380, they likely do not know how to palletize and handle these types of heavy machinery.

That $380 just has to be putting it on a skid and getting to a shipping terminal. No way any trucking company would even load it for that kind of money.

[Erik Loza]

That $380 just has to be putting it on a skid and getting to a shipping terminal. No way any trucking company would even load it for that kind of money.

Richard and Aaron are correct regarding freight cost. Just my 2-cents but I would be VERY leery about trusting some random LTL company to properly crate a big sliding saw. For example, there are some very specific plastic chocks that should be used to secure the sliding table during transport. I’ve seen sliders (even ones that people tried to secure with tie-down straps) come loose and beat themselves to death during transport. And, I give that outrigger trolley about a 0.0% chance of getting crated in such a way that it doesn’t receive damage during transport. Not saying this to scare you but it’s stuff you’ll need to factor in.

Again, agree with Richard and Aaron: Industrial machinery riggers are who I would trust. To the OP, are you able to rent a trailer and pick up the machine, yourself? Sorry if that already got mentioned.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

I'll agree on the shipping. The freight cost for my (new) slider this past year was $1200 and that was for terminal pickup on my own trailer. The LTL transportation system is in a bit of turmoil right now, too.

[Jeremy Toomey]

Richard and Aaron are correct regarding freight cost. Just my 2-cents but I would be VERY leery about trusting some random LTL company to properly crate a big sliding saw. For example, there are some very specific plastic chocks that should be used to secure the sliding table during transport. I’ve seen sliders (even ones that people tried to secure with tie-down straps) come loose and beat themselves to death during transport. And, I give that outrigger trolley about a 0.0% chance of getting crated in such a way that it doesn’t receive damage during transport. Not saying this to scare you but it’s stuff you’ll need to factor in.

Again, agree with Richard and Aaron: Industrial machinery riggers are who I would trust. To the OP, are you able to rent a trailer and pick up the machine, yourself? Sorry if that already got mentioned.

Erik

I have some concerns regarding shipping it. Mostly around getting it properly packed up. I'm having a discussion with the seller about that now. Seller's description of shipping was "disassembling it into two parts, strapping it down to a pallet and crating it up". Not sure what the two parts are quite yet.

I don't have the option of doing it myself. I'm in Idaho. The saw is in Connecticut. I simply do not have the time to make that trip.

Any recommendations on industrial machinery riggers in New England? Not an area I have any experience in.

Felder board did have a few threads with recommendations on packing sliders up but they were all over the map in terms of best approaches. But they were universal in stating it needed to be done right or problems would result.

[Aaron Inami]

You will probably want to google for that area:

https://www.google.com/search?client...igging+company

You did not specify the exact location, but Keeney Rigging appears to handle long range transport services. It might be several thousand dollars at this point, so you may decide to find a nice saw locally.

http://keeneyrigging.com/

[James Baldwin]

Jeremy, Would this fit the bill? It's close to your location (Kuna). I've bought stuff thru the auction site and done pretty good. One purchase involved a trip to Coeur d'Alene, ID, another to Darby, Mt and the last one to Aberdeen, Wa. Was kind of fun. Jim in Boise

https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/au...ew?auc=3341035