Input on CNC machines

[Martin Spence]

Examples of some reasonably useable (for light work like engraving) machines would be those from Inventables Pro and Shapeoko Pro. A step above, IMHO, would be a small machine from AVID.

My son finally showed some interest in a CNC machine for home/hobby use (generally anything I am interested in he is not - still looking for a fishing buddy if anyone is interested!) . So I am looking to pounce on his interest and jump in to the CNC slippery slope.

I have had my eye on 2 different brands and would like to solicit some feedback on whether I am on the right track or should I reconsider for Inventables and Shapeoko. I have my eye on Onefininty CNC and the X-50 model. That gives a decent 32"x32" envelope and seems like a solid machine. My "money's not a factor" machine is Avid CNC - seems Avid has stopped selling their Standard versions and now only have Pro versions on their website. It seems that the budget for a decent machine is in the $4500-$7500 range. Should I be considering any other vendors Next Wave? or any others. I realize that I am soliciting opinions and they are subjective - but looking for selection criteria I have not considered. The one detraction from Onefinity is their website says not compatible with spindles - I'd like to maybe start with a router and graduate to a water cooled spindle if only for the reduced noise and run times.

I'm going to start doing the usual signs and other 2D stuff - but would like to graduate to more complex projects. I plan on VCarve Pro and my son is a BSME with CAD/Solidworks experience. So hopefully we have that end figured out.

Many Thanks
Martin

[Brian Tymchak]

...The one detraction from Onefinity is their website says not compatible with spindles - I'd like to maybe start with a router and graduate to a water cooled spindle if only for the reduced noise and run times.

I don't think that's true. If you can provide a link to the page that states that, I'd like to read it. 1F Elite machines can use optional spindles made by PwnCNC, either water or air cooled. I don't know about other vendors. I'm like 98% certain X-50 machines were offered with optional spindles. If you start with a router, you will get a 65 mm Z axis mount. You can then get 65 mm spindle later on. However, if you want to upgrade to an 80 mm spindle, you will also have to upgrade the z axis mount.

Also, if you have a budget of $4000+, then you might want to look at the 1F Elite series vs the X-50. The Masso controller is alledgedly a significant step up from the build bot controller on the X. I have the Elite, but never worked on the X, so I can only repeat what I've heard/read in this case.

Edit: so just looked at 1F website. They used to have links to PwnCNC spindles, but I don't see them now.

[Michael Burnside]

I would not purchase any CNC that did not have at least an upgrade path to a spindle. And, to be honest once you’ve had one you won’t go back. So much more power, control and flexibility IMHO.

[Brian Tymchak]

I don't think that's true. If you can provide a link to the page that states that, I'd like to read it. 1F Elite machines can use optional spindles made by PwnCNC, either water or air cooled. I don't know about other vendors. I'm like 98% certain X-50 machines were offered with optional spindles. ....

Edit: so just looked at 1F website. They used to have links to PwnCNC spindles, but I don't see them now.

Did a little digging into history. Found this post from a Creeker that ordered the 1F Elite with a 80 mm mount for a PwcCNC spindle. I'm sure there is another Creeker with an X-50 and a spindle...

[David Buchhauser]

I don't know how much weight that gantry could support as far as converting to a spindle. I suppose as long as you could keep the spindle weight down to something comparable to that Makita router shown in their demo photo it should work fine. And I think you could come up with a custom spindle mount to fit this machine if you had to.

David

onefinity.jpg

[Martin Spence]

I don't think that's true. If you can provide a link to the page that states that, I'd like to read it.

Maybe I misinterpreted this statement in their FAQ? I have since seen a YouTube video of an Elite system with a Spindle - and 1F offers an 80mm spindle mount option. So it seems it is possible but 1F may not offer you any help if you run into problems?
Picture2.jpg

[George Yetka]

I have an x50 with an 80mm 3hp spindle. If I were to do it over again I would have started with the router to play first. The onefinity is a great machine for the money. It offers alot that others in the same price range dont have. Under 5,000 I think you found your machine. Once you get over there are some other good machines out there. Avid for sure, but the hammer and axiom machines are good for small form factor. After 10k you open to alot of other machines that I dont know too much about.

If you go with the onefinity there are a couple of users here that can answer questions. Contact me if needed. There is also a good onefinity forum and facebook group.

Mine is a closed circuit water cooled x50 foreman. I have it wall mounted and takes up very little space. If I had the room I wouldnt wall mount it as it adds hurdles. For 1 estop means the spindle will remain running but the spindle will travel straight x left. This will ruin whatever your working on and possibly destroy bits if you are using a fence. Also holding work is not as easy as flat.

[John TenEyck]

You can put a 65 mm or an 80 mm spindle on any 1F machine, with the appropriate mount. Join the Onefinity CNC Users Group and you will see any number of users who have one. Some have gone over the top in integrating them into the Buildbotics controller of the stock machines, others operate them completely independently. I have a Journeyman and am still using the Makita, but plan to upgrade to an air-cooled spindle someday with independent control. The 1F is more than robust enough to handle an 80 mm spindle. Again, join the Users Group and look for yourself.

The confusion probably stems from the fact that 1F does not sell nor offer support for a spindle. But they absolutely sell an 80 mm mount so you can add the larger option, and they support the machine whether or not you add a spindle. If you are thinking about upgrading to an 80 mm spindle, buy the machine with the 80 mm mount. You can buy an aftermarket insert to bush it down to 65 mm to run the Makita. I would not go with a 65 mm spindle because you lose significant Z- axis range.

1F also sells a new heavier duty Z-axis. It's more robust, has greater speed, and more range. It comes standard on the Elite series, but can be added to any of the standard models, might even be able to be ordered with one, not sure about that.

You won't find a more capable machine for the money. I bought the stock Journeyman for I think $4200 all in, including V-Carve Pro. I've had it for about 18 months now and not had a single issue beyond operator error.

If your needs are hobby centric, the stock machines will do anything you want. If you are thinking about light production work, or just like to have the latest offering then look at the Elite. The Masso controller supports spindle integration directly.

John

[Brian Tymchak]

....
The confusion probably stems from the fact that 1F does not sell nor offer support for a spindle. But they absolutely sell an 80 mm mount so you can add the larger option, and they support the machine whether or not you add a spindle. If you are thinking about upgrading to an 80 mm spindle, buy the machine with the 80 mm mount. You can buy an aftermarket insert to bush it down to 65 mm to run the Makita. I would not go with a 65 mm spindle because you lose significant Z- axis range.
....

I wish I had realized that before I ordered my machine with the 65 mm mount. Could have saved a bit of $$. But they had that great sale on the Elites last November.that I jumped on without all the research I would normally have done.

[Martin Spence]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I think I have landed on the 1F. Now to get the boss lady to approve the PO!

Martin

[George Yetka]

Easier to ask forgiveness than permission. kidding.

[John Lifer]

I've an old (2019) model of the Carbide XXL CNC that I just don't use enough to justify. And half of the issue is the SIZE of the bed. 32x32 is just not enough for LOTS of things I want to create. I Would NEVER buy a CNC that doesn't have at least one dimension of 48" Half sheet of ply. Spending on materials isn't cheap any more. I guess really it wasn't ever, but right now ply is expensive and cutting down to make a 32" max dimension is lots of waste. If you are only going to do signs then go for it. or small parts, but try doing most chairs or tables. You need that 2 or 3 or 4 inches you are missing. Just say'n. I've pretty much paid for my machine, but I still feel like it is wasted money and space. I would go another route if this is first and buy a used machine and SEE if the interest is there in 6 months. THEN spend that 6 or 10K on what you REALLY need.

[Brian Tymchak]

I've an old (2019) model of the Carbide XXL CNC that I just don't use enough to justify. And half of the issue is the SIZE of the bed. 32x32 is just not enough for LOTS of things I want to create. I Would NEVER buy a CNC that doesn't have at least one dimension of 48" Half sheet of ply. Spending on materials isn't cheap any more. I guess really it wasn't ever, but right now ply is expensive and cutting down to make a 32" max dimension is lots of waste. If you are only going to do signs then go for it. or small parts, but try doing most chairs or tables. You need that 2 or 3 or 4 inches you are missing. Just say'n. I've pretty much paid for my machine, but I still feel like it is wasted money and space. I would go another route if this is first and buy a used machine and SEE if the interest is there in 6 months. THEN spend that 6 or 10K on what you REALLY need.

I've not done this (yet) but I have read and watched YT vids using a feature called "tiling" which breaks a large carve into smaller chunks. You index the material such that when chunk a is done, you move the material on the bed to allow chunk b to be varved. Certainly, if you are doing commercial work, the larger bed is the way to go. Tiling will let the small operator do occasional large pieces on a smaller footprint. Tiling is a feature of the CAD/CAM package. Not sure if it's commonly supported by most CAD packages.

[Bob McBreen]

I would go another route if this is first and buy a used machine and SEE if the interest is there in 6 months. THEN spend that 6 or 10K on what you REALLY need.

Many people here say to purchase your second CNC first. I am doing the exact opposite. I purchased a cheap 40mm x 30mm from China. Total cost for everything need to get started was under $800.

My thought process is to see if I really like designing projects on the computer & cutting on the CNC. I have many small projects that will fit in the work area of my machine. I can create designs projects that are machine independent so it is easy if I upgrade to a larger CNC in the future.

[Jim Becker]

My brother did that, Bob...and he could never get it to work properly. There are always trade-offs. While the premise of buying your second machine first is largely rooted in the very real fact that if you really do adopt CNC into your world you'll have the features needed to do the things you want to do without replacing it, it's also partially based in the reality that the better machines hold their resale value a lot more. It's a balancing act. I'll also say that starting at the software side before investing in a machine is also a good idea, both because of the learning curve, but it will be helpful in defining what's necessary in the physical machine based on the kinds of things one is drawn to (pardon the expression) design and create. Vectric has excellent training materials that can be used with the free trial software, for example, to both learn and explore.