Table Saw Upgrade advice

[John TenEyck]

I have a Craftsman belt drive saw as well as a right tilt Unisaw. There is no comparison between the two if you want to do bevel cuts. Besides being difficult to tilt the blade over to 45 degrees, you cannot get the blade on the Craftsman to stay parallel with the miter slot, so bevels are never really right. The Unisaw is the polar opposite, it easily swings over to 45 degrees and the blade remains true to the miter slot, so bevels are perfect.

I've shown this before. This is how I do bevels on the Unisaw. The cut edge rides the L-fence and the offcut falls harmless under it. Besides the safety benefit with the offcut, the blade enters the show side of the wood on top, not out the bottom if you cut on the right side.



FWIW, my Unisaw has a 1.5 HP motor and rips 2" oak w/o strain with a sharp blade. I wouldn't pass on a Unisaw if the price is right just because it doesn't have 3 HP motor. And others have said, if you can find one with a bullet motor, even a 1 HP one has amazing power. Another saw I'd be looking for is a PM-66, even more heavily built than the Unisaw.

John

[Robert L Stewart]

I use the same setup as John T. My unisaw is a 1961 vintage with the Bullet motor 220V. I can rip 8/4 hard (eastern) maple all day.
The mitre setup is very easy and yields a perfect result.

[Lee Schierer]

Here is a 3 Hp General that is in your area.

I have no affiliation with this saw nor owner.

[Brian Vidler]

Mike King, thanks for the response. You made me do some thinking beyond I want a new saw!
I currently have a direct drive Craftman table saw. It’s a cheap saw. Pain in the neck to get the fence straight. I also can’t get a dado blade on it due to the shaft being too short. I have a 12” sliding compound miter saw, a band saw, bench top drill press, and a 4” bench top Craftsman jointer that needs to be upgraded as well. I can’t keep the fence at 90 deg. And all it seems to do is make divets in the edge of a board. So I don’t use it. I don’t have a planer yet, but looking to add that and upgrade the majority of my other stuff. Aside from the miter saw they are cheap entry level tools. Mostly craftsman stuff. I don’t have a problem with Craftsman tools, just looking to take a step up.

I don’t have a specific project or plan. However, I would like to make some keepsake boxes, cutting boards, a book case etc. but would also like to make cabinets for my shop and maybe the house one day. Maybe a couple picnic tables since ours were crushed by a giant maple limb? Working on getting that cut into lumber!

[Jacques Gagnon]

Brian,

Assuming that you have confirmed that a table saw fits in your woodworking plans and that the budget allows for it, the item that Lee referenced is something you should seriously consider. The saw is a time-proven product with a solid track record. The Incra mitre gauge is also a very good product.

As is the case with Lee, I do not have any affiliation with either equipment or owner. I am, on the other hand, very proficient at spending other people’s money 😜.

Good luck in your search.

Jacques

[john lawson]

My advice is don't buy any tables saw that doesn't have a riving knife. If you are patient you should be able to find one. This is much more important, in my opinion, than the left/right tilt debate. Good luck.

[Jacques Gagnon]

John,

Your raise a very good point. Before switching to a slider, I had installed an aftermarket adjustable splitter/blade guard (SharkGuard) to improve safety on my table saw. It was a « shark fin » model that worked well, although required manual adjustments when changing blade height. The blade guard could be removed for non-through cuts and the splitter remained in place, doing its work.

The important point here is to make sure that cuts can be performed safely. Some setups deliver better than others in that regard.

[Mike King]

Mike King, thanks for the response. You made me do some thinking beyond I want a new saw!
I currently have a direct drive Craftman table saw. It’s a cheap saw. Pain in the neck to get the fence straight. I also can’t get a dado blade on it due to the shaft being too short. I have a 12” sliding compound miter saw, a band saw, bench top drill press, and a 4” bench top Craftsman jointer that needs to be upgraded as well. I can’t keep the fence at 90 deg. And all it seems to do is make divets in the edge of a board. So I don’t use it. I don’t have a planer yet, but looking to add that and upgrade the majority of my other stuff. Aside from the miter saw they are cheap entry level tools. Mostly craftsman stuff. I don’t have a problem with Craftsman tools, just looking to take a step up.

I don’t have a specific project or plan. However, I would like to make some keepsake boxes, cutting boards, a book case etc. but would also like to make cabinets for my shop and maybe the house one day. Maybe a couple picnic tables since ours were crushed by a giant maple limb? Working on getting that cut into lumber!

If you are looking near term to building cabinets, then the table saw might be a priority. For cutting boards, bookcases and keepsake boxes, you might be better off prioritizing a planer or a jointer/planer combination machine. Being able to process solid wood so it is of uniform thickness and square is a pretty important aspect to stepping up your woodworking skills and projects.

For dados, you could look to a router or a router table with a good fence. I really like my Incra LS positioner with the Wonder fence, and you can use it to cut all sorts of joints, including dovetails, finger joints, etc.

A table saw can be really useful, but thinking about the priorities in building out the machines will position you to get the most versatility in your woodworking.

Mike

[Brian Vidler]

What do you think about this disappearing riving knife made by Delta for older unisaws?

https://deltamachinery.com/accessori...e-saws/34-868/

There is a YouTube video too https://youtu.be/T1W5T9UfuH8

[Jim Morgan]

What do you think about this disappearing riving knife made by Delta for older unisaws?

https://deltamachinery.com/accessori...e-saws/34-868/

There is a YouTube video too https://youtu.be/T1W5T9UfuH8

That is a splitter, which tilts with the blade, not a riving knife which both tilts and rises (or falls) with the blade. A riving knife maintains a constant distance from the teeth of the blade, can be used with both through and non-through cuts, and is the safest option. A splitter is better than nothing. The telescoping version from Delta is more convenient than most, since it can be pushed down below the table, rather than removed altogether, for non-through cuts.

[Michael Rutman]

Just a warning from my long ago past when I upgraded my tablesaw to something affordable. I then spent a lot of money on fences and other things to try to get a great cut. You can easily spend $1000 trying to get a $500 tablesaw to cut like a $1500 (personal experience) sawstop and fail. Or you can get a sawstop (starting at $899 for the compact) and get awesome cuts out of the box.

Now you are probably going to say that you need a bigger table, but do you really? Make a sled for any cuts larger. You will be limited to 24" rips, which may be a deal killer, and the extended out fence looks flimsy.

I don't have one of these so no personal experience with it, but the saw stops are really nice saws.

[Brian Vidler]

Thanks again everyone for your insight! It truly has been helpful!! IÂ’m sure IÂ’m not the first or last to be in this quandary. There are contractor saws with left tilt and a riving knife, but few cabinet saws with both until you get to about $1500. I originally intended to buy a saw and put an incra TS-LS and router table on it. I really like the functionality of this fence but maybe IÂ’m just drinking the cool aid? That pushes this to about $3000. ThatÂ’s more than I intended to spend. I may need to make concessions somewhere?

Safety is a priority, especially since my kids (mostly over 18) may use the saw.

Due to space constraints, I would like to have the router be part of the saw rather than another table space.

[Greg Parrish]

Brian,

I've been interested in the Incra TS-LS setup for nearly 8 years. I thought about it on my prior Powermatic PM66, I thought about trying to adapt it to my prior Felder KF500, and for the last year I've been thinking about it on my current Sawstop. Everyone has their own way of working and is entitled to their own opinion. Many comments I've read call it a solution in search of a problem. I take those kind of comments with the same grain of salt as the overly glowing reviews by people that probably got it free or are working for their YouTube income.

The above all said, I ended up ordering the system this Monday. I called and spoke with Neil at Incra a couple of times with questions and he patiently answered them all, including ones about how to modify it if I chose to. Their website mentions 4 to 6 weeks lead time and Neil told me 2 to 3 weeks lead time on the phone. Well, my system shows it will be here Thursday, so they certainly under promised and over delivered on that aspect. (4 days from order to expected delivery). A+++ customer service so far.

My personal reason for wanting and ordering the system relates to repeatability and function, as well as space saving. I know many will jump at the opportunity to tell me how large it is and how it takes too much space. But, I am a small workshop woodworker. I have about 2/3 of a 400 sq ft garage. For me, there is value in having a system that can handle table saw functions, router functions and jointery. I also see some economies of scale in that if it works as well as all the video's, it should replace my Leigh RTJ400 dovetail jig, and in most cases, my Incra I-Box jig. That said, Neil recommended keeping my I-Box for plywood because the saw would make cleaner cuts than the router many times. Regardless, I've been so impressed with the I-Box jig that I can only hope the TS-LS Jointery system performs as well.

My other reason mentioned is repeatability. By that, I mean simple things like duplicating a prior cut for a damaged part or similar. I'm admittedly not very good at following a batched approach to projects. I kind of move at my own tempo, pace and order. I may go days or weeks in between sessions. With the standard T-Glide style fences, I find it difficult to exactly replicate a part when I can't use the prior part for fence spacing. The extreme cut edge of the blade seems to allude me when trying to set the fence solely by tape measure. In many cases, the part I'm trying to replicate may already be glued into a project. The video's on the Incra system make functions like this seem to be 1-2-3 easy. Most of the reviews tend to agree so I'm hopeful I find it the same.

I just recently started a layout change in my shop getting ready for the new fence. I'm excited to try it out. Not sure if I'd call it drinking the cool-aid but it may very well follow along the same path people talk about after trying their first Festool product. Some fall in love with it and others simply hate it. Based on my I-Box experience, I'm thinking I'm going to love the TS-LS system though.

Good luck in your search for a saw. Regards. Greg

Thanks again everyone for your insight! It truly has been helpful!! IÂ’m sure IÂ’m not the first or last to be in this quandary. There are contractor saws with left tilt and a riving knife, but few cabinet saws with both until you get to about $1500. I originally intended to buy a saw and put an incra TS-LS and router table on it. I really like the functionality of this fence but maybe IÂ’m just drinking the cool aid? That pushes this to about $3000. ThatÂ’s more than I intended to spend. I may need to make concessions somewhere?

Safety is a priority, especially since my kids (mostly over 18) may use the saw.

Due to space constraints, I would like to have the router be part of the saw rather than another table space.

[Alex Zeller]

I would take a look at IRS auctions (not the government). They often have woodworking auctions around your area and you can often find cabinet saws for a fraction of what a used one would sell for. Just make sure that it's not 3 phase. The prices are falling back down again. A few years ago I bought a 3hp Powermatic PM66 for $150. I took it all apart, cleaned everything up, and it's been a great saw until I upgrade to a slider. I've seen plenty of them sell for around this price.

[Aaron Inami]

I see that the potential costs are now approaching $3,000. I would like to introduce a new option here. I would look at the Harvey Alpha HW110LC-36P. It's a 2HP cabinet saw that is currently on sale for $2099. For just over $2k, you actually get a whole lot with this:

- 2HP motor that runs on a 120V 20A circuit.
- left-tilt trunnion
- overhead dust collection
- a much better designed under-blade dust collection (when compared to the older Delta/Powermatic/Jet/Etc. cabinet saws).
- a really nice multi-function miter gauge with micro-adjust stops
- quick removable riving knife system
- a high/low unifence type ripping fence with dual indicators (for low/high fence positions).
- saw height/tilt adjustments use a new lead screw system instead of the old gearing system. This is actually a big deal because the older systems required grease and the trunnion gears always got clogged up with dust debris. This caused the gears to become bogged down and would eventually lock up the height/tilt adjustment system until you completely pulled off the cast iron top and cleaned out the entire gear system.

https://www.harveywoodworking.com/pr...31869993648243

I know that you're kind of locked into wanting the Incra TS-LS fence, but if it were me and I was comparing an old beat up and worn out unisaw + Incra TS-LS, I would rather buy the brand new Harvey for all the reasons above. The one downside to the Harvey is the 36" ripping capacity. Though, for $200 more, you can get the HW110TC-52P that has a higher power 3HP motor (requires 240V) along with 52" rip capacity. The one benefit that I see on the Incra fence is to lock down any fence deflection. A traditional fence may have a very tiny bit of flex on the far end if you apply a large amount of pressure against the fence, but in my experience this is not really a problem with traditional cabinet saw fences.

The Harvey 31-1/2" cast iron router table can be installed into either one of these saws. I am documenting a router table build using this exact table:
https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....er-Table-Build

If table saw safety with your kids is really a huge concern, you might just want to bite the bullet and spend the money for a Sawstop unit. Although, even the Sawstop will not prevent kick-back injuries (which can happen if the saw is used improperly).

I used to own a Powermatic PM-66 before I went to a slider. I will say that I liked the Powermatic the best out of all the cabinet saws I have owned and tried. It just felt more "solid" than the others. Though, part of it could be because I was running a 5HP motor on that one.

When introducing new people to a tablesaw, I really lecture on safety. One of the examples I put people through is to give then a 2x4 and a hand-saw - then ask them to saw through the entire thing. Then I take that exact same piece and demonstrate a crosscut on the table saw which takes somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 second. Usually their eyes "pop out". This example really shows how fast a table saw accident can occur and makes them think more carefully.