Warning: Arc Faults and Festool

[Bill Dufour]

I put gfci breakers in my shop panel. Did not work on VFD for drill press. Did not work on simple air compressor. How to use a regular breaker.
Bill D

[Michael Rutman]

I want to be clear, the AFCI is not tripping on the Festool being started, just plugged in.

[Monte Milanuk]

Just curious... anyone here familiar with *how* these breakers are 'detecting' the supposed arc fault?

Most of my experience with arc fault tech has been more in the realm of big-boy toys i.e. metal-clad switchgear, substations, etc. where they use a combination of pressure sensors, polarized light filters and other current sensing devices. Breakers in a residential panel... seem like that'd be jamming about 10 pounds of... stuff... in a 5 pound bag, and work about as well as expected.

[Rod Sheridan]

I want to be clear, the AFCI is not tripping on the Festool being started, just plugged in.

Does it trip with the Festool in the off position?

Does your vac have Bluetooth?

Regards, Rod

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Monty, the AFCI breakers look for the frequencies generated by an arc and open the circuit

Regards, Rod

[Monte Milanuk]

Hi Monty, the AFCI breakers look for the frequencies generated by an arc and open the circuit.

Must be quite the schema to pull that kind of fingerprint out of all the crap and harmonics generated by modern electronic power supplies. Neat!

[Michael Rutman]

Kapax was definitely off when it happened. I can't remember if the vacuum was ever off vs on auto. I doubt it was off as when it is on that side of the workshop it's usually has either the Kapax or a sander plugged in.

No bluetooth.

Electrician said he has seen it a lot with "smart" devices. He suspects that there is a constant current drain to run the smarts and that current is "leaking". He doesn't really know but googling for it seems to confirm that nuisance tripping is common.

[Michael Burnside]

Hmm, weird. I have 3 Festool (not Felder ) vacs, Kapex and a slew of their powered tools. Never once have I tripped a breaker in my shop and all 3 vacs are plugged in 24-7.

[Jim Becker]

Hmm, weird. I have 3 Festool (not Felder ) vacs, Kapex and a slew of their powered tools. Never once have I tripped a breaker in my shop and all 3 vacs are plugged in 24-7.

Are your breakers AFCI breakers? (Arc Fault) That's what's at discussion here.

[Michael Burnside]

Are your breakers AFCI breakers? (Arc Fault) That's what's at discussion here.

Yes, they are now required in my area and were code when my shop was built 2.5 years ago. I missed the window and had to buy $200 breakers for my 240V tools when a month before $40 ones were sufficient...

Edit: And to be honest, I was worried my CNC, SawStop, bandsaw, drill press, 15" Planer, 8" Jointer would have problems but I've not had a single issue in the 2.5 years the shop has been operational. Same goes for all 120V circuits.

[Karl Loeblein]

Mind saying the make and model of the AFCI breaker that’s tripping? I suspect their still working the kinks out on some of these AFCI breakers so keep an eye out for a new model assuming you decide/required to keep an AFCI breaker installed.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, they are now required in my area and were code when my shop was built 2.5 years ago. I missed the window and had to buy $200 breakers for my 240V tools when a month before $40 ones were sufficient...

Edit: And to be honest, I was worried my CNC, SawStop, bandsaw, drill press, 15" Planer, 8" Jointer would have problems but I've not had a single issue in the 2.5 years the shop has been operational. Same goes for all 120V circuits.

I'm thankful I wasn't faced with that for the new shop building...we are still using the 2014 NEC here. My panel allowed for snap on neutral for the 120v GFCI breakers and that also saved money.

[Michael Burnside]

I'm thankful I wasn't faced with that for the new shop building...we are still using the 2014 NEC here. My panel allowed for snap on neutral for the 120v GFCI breakers and that also saved money.

Yes, literally less than 2 months before we started they transitioned to 2020 and my electrical bid went up 10% in parts alone. I did tell my electrician not to cheap out on these breakers and we ended up going with Eaton for all the 240V tools and a few other circuits. They were about 30-40 bucks more (~$200 each!) than the HD/Square-D versions we could get locally but so far they perform just fine.

[Rod Sheridan]

Kapax was definitely off when it happened. I can't remember if the vacuum was ever off vs on auto. I doubt it was off as when it is on that side of the workshop it's usually has either the Kapax or a sander plugged in.

No bluetooth.

Electrician said he has seen it a lot with "smart" devices. He suspects that there is a constant current drain to run the smarts and that current is "leaking". He doesn't really know but googling for it seems to confirm that nuisance tripping is common.

Hi, anything with electronics that's always on, such as a smart vac has a small DC power supply in it.

The power supply will have a capacitor in it, which will charge when power is applied. This causes a tiny arc as you insert the cord cap into the receptacle, this can be detected by the AFCI........Regards, Rod.

[Karl Loeblein]

What is the make, model and version of the AFCI that’s tripping? I wonder if other AFCI designs might work better in this circumstance. I’ve read some people are having better luck using AFCI/GFCI combo breakers.

As far as me, I only have GFCI and regular breakers in my shop. Although code enforcement did require AFCI breakers be installed for two additional bedrooms added to my house. Those are made by Cutler Hammer, and the only time those have tripped are when my incoming power lines kicks on & off rapidly during big thunderstorms.