Input requested on routers that have greater depth capability

[Edward Weber]

Sorry, but the embedded link just didn't show up on my screen with my eyes. I only see it now that you've mentioned it...

I was just musing that It just amazes me how these threads always seem to circle back on themselves and then start to repeat.
Hope it didn't come accross the wrong way

[Jim Becker]

No worries, Edward. I at least got some good suggestions in the end to consider should I decide to spend a few shekels for a router that's "ideal" for this fixture.

[Chris Parks]

I'd question how long an air cooled router will last for really long run times. There is good reasons why CNC spindles are available water cooled, long life, far far less noisy and are reasonably priced but they do require a VFD which adds far better speed control plus the more versatile ER collet system. I installed a cheap Chinese water cooled spindle into a router table for a woodworking school about 5 years ago, it is used every day and has never given any trouble at all.

[Jim Becker]

I'd question how long an air cooled router will last for really long run times. There is good reasons why CNC spindles are available water cooled, long life, far far less noisy and are reasonably priced but they do require a VFD which adds far better speed control plus the more versatile ER collet system. I installed a cheap Chinese water cooled spindle into a router table for a woodworking school about 5 years ago, it is used every day and has never given any trouble at all.

The HSD spindle on my CNC is air cooled. Even the largest ones on the biggest machines my manufacturer (Camaster) produces are air cooled. That's not atypical with commercial CNC machines, either. It's a myth that water cooled is better than air cooled with spindles...how the specific spindle is designed and setup is what counts and both methods work equally well. That said, I agree that a router motor isn't the best solution for long run times for flattening slabs. Commercial, dedicated flattening tables typically use induction motors for this purpose rather than routers or even spindles, since it's a one speed operation. When I was running the three slabs for my table project, I actively monitored the DW618 for heat as well as blew out any dust between passes. I kept run times to a half hour...frankly, I needed a break at that point myself to grab a sip of water, etc. I will never be processing a lot of material on this setup and my goal with the question is just to identify a potential router choice that has more vertical extension to reduce the need to physically reposition the workpieces as they are milled off and get thinner. Market research, if you will.

[Greg Parrish]

Jim, I can't remember how big the table top slabs were but why not flatten them with your CNC? Couldn't be that difficult to program the cut and seems like you have a pretty good sized CNC if I remember correctly. Realize your CNC may still not be long enough, but maybe you could flatten 1/2 then rotate and do the other 1/2. Just curious.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I can't remember how big the table top slabs were but why not flatten them with your CNC? Couldn't be that difficult to program the cut and seems like you have a pretty good sized CNC if I remember correctly. Realize your CNC may still not be long enough, but maybe you could flatten 1/2 then rotate and do the other 1/2. Just curious.

I thought I addressed that. They are eight foot slabs and I have a four foot CNC. You cannot "tile" for flattening with any effective results. Tiling is a great technique for creating things longer than the CNC machine, but you need to be starting out with material that's already flat and at thickness to do that because you have to support it at the very precise and consistent height for it's entire length through the whole job. 'Can't really do that for an uneven, wonky, multi-dimensional slab of wood.

Now anything 49" or shorter in length and no wider than 49" will get processed on the CNC for sure. The table setup is only for "big stuff" which is not a constant need for me. What it does allow me to do is surface long and wide stock...I hate, hate, hate ripping down material so it will "fit" on one of the traditional machines for jointing and thicknessing. Personal preference.

[Greg Parrish]

You probably covered it and I missed it. For some reason I thought your Camaster was 4x8 or 5x10. Makes sense though.

I thought I addressed that. They are eight foot slabs and I have a four foot CNC. You cannot "tile" for flattening with any effective results. Tiling is a great technique for creating things longer than the CNC machine, but you need to be starting out with material that's already flat and at thickness to do that because you have to support it at the very precise and consistent height for it's entire length through the whole job. 'Can't really do that for an uneven, wonky, multi-dimensional slab of wood.

Now anything 49" or shorter in length and no wider than 49" will get processed on the CNC for sure. The table setup is only for "big stuff" which is not a constant need for me. What it does allow me to do is surface long and wide stock...I hate, hate, hate ripping down material so it will "fit" on one of the traditional machines for jointing and thicknessing. Personal preference.

[Jim Becker]

You probably covered it and I missed it. For some reason I thought your Camaster was 4x8 or 5x10. Makes sense though.

I wish I would have paid the relatively small amount (maybe $3K) to have gone right to the 8' machine back in 2018, but at the time, I was in the old shop and things were pretty space constrained. I could have made it work, but...that's hindsight. I chose the 4x4 and in general, it does what I need it to do. Getting larger now would be a "whole lot more money"...many multiples of what I've invested in the multipurpose table that includes slab flattening capability.

[Chris Parks]

It's a myth that water cooled is better than air cooled with spindles

I think it is a myth that Chinese spindles are not as good as spindles made elsewhere, people assume that because they are made in China things then it must be sub standard in quality. I source both VFD's and spindles form China and have zero problems with either.

[Aaron Inami]

Water cooled systems can be somewhat better than air cooled, but this is not a significant amount. In terms of themal performance, the only area where water cooled is significantly better is the time to steady state (essentially how well the system cools until the system is saturated). This is because water cooled systems have a larger mass to absorb heat before hitting max heat saturation (all the water and the radiator). See this video at the 3:24 mark. It's talking about computer CPU coolers, but the general idea of thermal performance is the same for router/spindle motors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VzXHUTqE7E&s=224


The one benefit of water cooled systems is when you have a sealed system (such as a router table). The air can get warm inside that small router motor cabinet and the air-cooled router motors are just recycling that constantly warming air. Jessem has just recently engineered an air-cooled solution for this by using external air ducts:

https://jessem.com/products/jessems-...le-control-box

https://jessem.com/products/copy-of-...-guide-bushing

However, when using a hand-held router in free-air (like what Jim is doing with his slab surfacing), I don't think you'll be having any major problems in general.

[Jim Becker]

I think it is a myth that Chinese spindles are not as good as spindles made elsewhere, people assume that because they are made in China things then it must be sub standard in quality. I source both VFD's and spindles form China and have zero problems with either.

I agree fully. There are quality products made in most places...as well as duds. It's all about the design, production and inspection process. I also made no negative representation about spindles made anywhere specific.

[Chris Parks]

For my use the WC spindle has two advantages, noise is so low that it can hardly be heard, it is only the cutter that can be heard so when doing long runs the lack of motor noise is a major advantage and until you experience the difference it can't be appreciated. The second advantage is being water cooled it is a sealed unit and that means the dust extraction can be designed differently, dusty working conditions such as slab flattening and CNC work means that the dust can be ignored as far as the motor goes. On my router table the spindle partially sits in the dust extraction chute, that can't do that with an air cooled spindle and using that design means there is no dust left on the table at all but that is another discussion for another time. The thermal side of the equation is not something I have ever worried about but WC spindles would not heat soak like the AC spindle would after it is turned off.

[Jim Becker]

I absolutely appreciate the points you're making Chris. If I actually used my router table with any level of frequency, I'd consider replacing the PC7518 if it died with a spindle for sure and the point you make about the sealed nature of a water cooled unit is absolutely a good and valid decision factor.