Shaper: play between arbor and cutter head

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

I made this short video to show the play I have between cutter body and arbor
I'm assuming this means a new arbor?

If so, what dia does the arbor for a 1 1/4" set up need to be? Is the cutter body 1.25" or the arbor?

Video: https://youtu.be/OzMKOHIfMl0

[Paul Haus]

I'm a tad confused with your video/question. You have a cutter head that has some apparent play between the cutter head and the spindle, correct? Is this the only one with the play in it or do your other cutterheads also have the same play? Now the spindle appears to have a sleeve or spacer to make it fit the shaft, so do you have any other ones you can try? What size is the current spindle in the shaper and what is the opening size of the cutterhead?
IMO you need to do some clarification of your setup prior to looking for answers.

[Bill Dufour]

The play is too low to measure with digital calipers. You need to use a micrometer. For 1.25 you need to buy a two inch micrometer and a one inch standard. If the standard says it is one inch it is probably not accurate enough for the job. It should be like 1.0001 " long or similar accuracy. Good luck measuring the bore accurately enough to be meaningful.
Off hand I would guess 0.003-0.005 play.
If you can feel the play it is too much.
Bill D

[andrew whicker]

I was thinking of measuring the play with a test indicator.

This is a bigger problem than it appears because I have to make a tool to remove the arbor before considering a replacement. Then I have to worry about the arbor itself. I was thinking of having a local machinist build me one vs looking for one that fits but maybe even with this old Italian I can find new arbors that fit.

Yeah, there's no way for me to measure the bore. And to be frank, why? The only reason would be if I didn't trust two brand new heads from Whitehill which seems over the top. You can do it with a bore gage that is basically a rod you twist to touch the walls of the bore. Then you take that out and measure with micrometers.

[Mel Fulks]

I wouldn’t worry about it, and in employments I’ve seen management say , “Don’t worry about it They measured everything when
they made it”. Now if you bought it from a guy who was whittling it out on a street corner ….don’t buy any more. Put a another
spacer on and all will be good. Half staff is only for the really bloody accidents.

[andrew whicker]

I have a Starrett 1 inch micrometer, but nothing to measure 1.25.

Again, the play is what matters. And the standard sizes. That's why I was asking what the std size of an 1.25 arbor is. I'll Google around and see what I can find. I'm assuming the spindle is 1.25 inches and the bores are over sized slightly.

[Joe Calhoon]

European mfgs use a H6 or 7 ISO tolerance on cutters. Cannot remember exactly. I know my US made cutters fit slightly tighter on shafts so I suspect their tolerances are tighter. They all work.
looking at your video I think your shaft has been spun a few times. And the table rings abused a lot. Run it, if it works don’t worry about it.
Your not running a Weinig Conturex there!

[andrew whicker]

Fair enough.

I don't know why they were using metal hammers on the rings...

[Richard Coers]

I don't see any play between the cutter and the shaft. You are putting a rotational force on the cutter, not a straight push into and away from the shaft. The sound appears to be in a pulley or the drive of the shaper. Shaper shaft appears to be just fine to me. Check keys and set screws on the drive system.

[andrew whicker]

It might be hard to see in the video, but it's definitely moving a bit.

[Joe Calhoon]

It’s typical to have a very slight rocking motion.
Very slight! Without rocking just moving side to side if there is movement it might be too much.
Hard to put all that in words…
Have you checked runout?

[brent stanley]

Spindles for shapers should be done to h7 which gives you none over but a little under is ok. The lower case letter (the "h" in this example) signifies the shaft, where the upper case the hole. The tooling is often a bit larger. Sometimes bearings are made right on the money and if your shaft is on the larger side of the tolerance range (+0.000) it can be a challenge to get on. There will be a wee bit of movement sometimes, the old school moulders got around it with tapered settups, modern kit with hydrobore.

[Joe Calhoon]

Brent,
H7 is for the bore of the cutter. g6 is the shaft tolerance.

[Bill Dufour]

1.25 is under 32mm.

H7 is -0 to -25 micro meters
g6 is +9 to +25 micro meter
Not sure what a micro meter is .
Bill D

[Bill Dufour]

micro meter is a micron. so 0.001 mm
Bill D