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Thread: Replacing a front entry door - build vs buy, what hardware, what wood species, etc

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Quenneville View Post
    Around here a door like Mark's bottom right picture would have cost around $15K four years ago. Good lumber has tripled in price since then.

    My quote for 26 internal doors was $39,000 four years ago. I made them all myself for around $7,000. I imagine that my cost would be more like $20,000 now. It took over a month by the way. I would guess that a quote today would be more like $55K. This is why we can’t have noce things.
    Aussie or US dollars?

  2. #17
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    I have to ask. Why build a fancy expensive door if you are going to cover it with a storm door?? Each to his own, but maybe this is the wrong place to spend a lot of money and time?

    No offense meant, just askin.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Potter View Post
    I have to ask. Why build a fancy expensive door if you are going to cover it with a storm door?? Each to his own, but maybe this is the wrong place to spend a lot of money and time?

    No offense meant, just askin.
    A lot of recent storm door installs around here are mostly clear glass in a metal frame.

  4. #19
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    Thank you. Lots of folks around here never heard of a storm door. Screen doors are rare too, except for sliders.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Potter View Post
    I have to ask. Why build a fancy expensive door if you are going to cover it with a storm door?? Each to his own, but maybe this is the wrong place to spend a lot of money and time?

    No offense meant, just askin.
    No offense taken - good question. The storm door is already in-place, and that definitely leads me away from building a "fancy" door. I'm thinking something like a modern-looking slab door, perhaps painted even, but spending $$$ on good hardware, seals, etc.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Potter View Post
    Thank you. Lots of folks around here never heard of a storm door. Screen doors are rare too, except for sliders.
    Even around here where we can the odd time hit the -40 degree mark in the winter, storm doors are not as popular as years past for new builds or door replacements. They offer very little improvement in heat loss. The one thing they can provide is a glass that opens leaving a bug screen for some summer ventilation temperature permitting.

  7. #22
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    Really nice build Mark, I can see the hours tolling on that door! But it was worth it ! Impressive work!

    I have built a few doors, but installed a LOT of doors through the years.
    AS others pointed out, if its a sense of pride, build it, regardless of the cost.
    If your design is unique and its hard to find, maybe build it, as custom designs can really get costly.
    If its sheer economics...maybe building will save you some, assuming not too many mistakes, although based on the wood used, you can really spend a lot these days on the wood.

    OTOH, if you want a nice selection to choose from, and not have to waste countless hours tracking down every part, jig, tool, then find one on sale. I find the cost of front doors reasonable considering I know the costs to build, especially if you get contractor pricing. Plus, my finishing jobs are never as nice as factory made. Unless you use oil finish, pretty simple.

    Last few houses, I went with Fiberglass front doors, why? They wear so much better, never have issues with them. One n done. They come pre finished and look like wood. HD and Lowes sells them as well as any good door supplier. If you build your own, you have to be concerned about the moisture content of the wood, as they can warp, I learned that the hard way. you need a good pinless moisture meter to read thick wood, otherwise you can get some unreliable readings.

    Also, the hours can really add up, as everything is a one-off. Certain router / shaper door bit sets are costly, and often you only use it once. you need jigs for hinge alignment, locksets, etc. The build also can be hard to manage as they get heavy and awkward. Mostly a problem if you work solo. As another poster mentioned, the frame / jam is half the battle, Very time consuming to get that frame perfectly square and plumb on all 3 sides as well as keeping the sides equal distance from top to bottom. The heavier the door, the more robust wood you need for the frame. Pre hung doors solve sooo many installation issues, specially if you have a little experience installing them.

    I secure my pre hung frames with added cross members / spacers at the bottoms for interior doors, before I remove the packaging. I just nail some 1x pine across the jams. I never worry about nail holes on doors and jams that will be painted as its a long putty game before paint regardless. But if they will be stained or clear finished, different story....be sure you can find some good matching filler, another PITA. This is where consistent color wood matters so ONE putty color can be used throughout. Nothing more amateur than a gorgeous wood, with putty holes showing. Even with a perfect putty color match, they can still be obvious due to grain. So I shoot very thin nails to set the frame, then glue my support shims in. The door frame opening dimension should be near perfect as well, since you would be controlling that variable.

    On pre hung doors the jam widths are usually perfect from from the factory. This allows a consistent reveal after door is put back on after frame is installed. I remove the slab / door and install the frame carefully so the straightness and squareness remains true. If the jam remains straight after installation, (use a long straight edge) and the entire frame is square AND plumb, I remove the securing pine cross members, then drop the slab on the hinges, insert hinge pins, and 90% of the time, you're done. You should have a consistent reveal around the door....IMO, the real check for a clean install and trouble free life. Also, open the door half way, let go...it should NOT move, i.e. self close or open further, ya gotta SET that frame plumb to prevent door gravity movement. The larger and heavier (wood selection) the door size, the more vulnerable it is to leaning. So be sure to use enough hinges and OVERSIZE the weight rating of the hinges, as a slight bend (or looseness) in the hinges can also lead to the issues above. I like the idea of ball bearing hinges mentioned by a previous poster, but I never personally used them. 4 heavy duty stainless hinges are prob. overkill enough.

    (Oh yeah, don't forget to account for the height of thresholds and / or flooring thickness, when setting the frame so u dont have to saw the door bottom after the slab is already finished)
    Last edited by Will Blick; 06-03-2023 at 9:54 AM. Reason: grammar, clarity

  8. #23
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    If you are serious about building a front door, I would highly highly recommend taking the Alpine Workshops door workshop. Might as well learn from one of the best @Joe Calhoun...

    https://alpineworkshops.com/workshop...-and-door.html

    Also note that you can rent the shaper cutters from Rangate necessary to make an entry door...

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike King; 06-02-2023 at 7:07 PM.

  9. #24
    Will outlined a lot of it pretty well above. I have built some doors and will say that for me, it makes sense when it’s going to be stain/clear finish and I want control over the grain selection (either for aesthetics or wood stability or both) and if someone is willing to pay me what it costs to do it.

    Loads of work and you don’t want to botch any of the steps along the way (wood selection, joinery, weather sealing, finishing, hardware, installation, flashing…)

    Building doors is actually one of the more satisfying pursuits in woodworking that I have found so far and wouldn’t mind doing more permanently…but a *lot* goes into a properly designed, built and installed custom wooden door. The prices are high for a reason. If you have the time, tools and skills to do it yourself and you want the satisfaction and pride that can come along with it I’d say go for it, especially in a low exposure area with a storm door. If exposure was high and you had heavy UV and rain/snow to deal with then I would suggest otherwise and go fiberglass, etc
    Still waters run deep.

  10. #25
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    We built our house and my wife wanted a wood door because it looked great. That door lasted about 5-10 years, requiring annual upkeep of the finish. A painted door will obviously require less annual maintenance. The fact that it is sheltered is also a plus. With a storm door, even more protection. However, I'd just say that, since replacing my wood door with a fiberglass insulated door which matches the trim of our house, I've had zero maintenance.

    If you're looking for a woodworking challenge, it's a great project. For me, I'd put it in the category of making kitchen cabinets (maybe more challenging than that even). Could I do it? I believe I could. I've been a woodworker for 45 years and have a lot of tools and skills. Would I do it? While I thought about it at one point, the answer is never. It's a huge amount of work and getting it just right, then installing them is indeed a challenge. I think building and installing a door is a challenge at least equal to that.

    Good luck. I'd love to see it when it's installed.

  11. #26
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    Great points Randy...
    In my early days, I too underestimated the installation, as I put too much thought into the build. This can sometimes be true of kitchens as well. I can remember a lot of kitchen jobs where I did a lousy job of assessing how out of square / plumb / level the walls / ceilings / floors were. I would spend more time battling those issues during the install vs building the boxes!

    In my last few jobs, I bought RTA cabinets with included door / drawer fronts, fridge panels, molding, etc ... not for the boxes (carcasses) as anyone can slap together boxes, but for the FINISHES! Last few jobs were all high gloss white for uppers, and textured matte color on the lowers. There is NO way I could have finished as gorgeous as these were done. They were finished in a factory in Taiwan with automated robots, ovens, etc. I could not even sub out finishing locally to look this good. And the cost of the RTA cabinets were less than what a local place would charge just for the finishing.

    So sometimes, it just does not make sense to build, as there is so much more to the final look vs. just the ww component.

  12. #27
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    On wood species... Obviously go with an outdoor rated species....anything from domestic to your area all the way to exotics. Budget matters here!

    About 2 years ago, I built a gate from African Mahogany, which has an excellent outdoor rating. Could not find it locally, so ordered from AZ supplier. Not many boards matched in color, not sure how I overlooked that fact as I am often very meticulous with wood selection. It was done on a whim, in a rush, etc. AND the wood was on sale, so I took a chance. Provided a note with the order to color match the boards. Maybe they did, and this was the best they can do. So I stained the lighter boards with pigmented stain to match the darker pieces. The color match looked very good when finished. Hit em with 10 coats of Spar Marine Varnish. It looked amazing. After 2 yrs of sun and weather, the stain faded, and the boards are mismatched, nearly worse than they had I left them unstained. Not horrible, but not the look I wanted. On a front door, it would be horrible

    Hand picking your wood is critical for a project like yours, or any outdoor project that you want color consistency. Sunlight is so bright, even if not direct hit, it can accentuate color variances. Its hard to rely on stain to correct color mismatches for outdoor projects. Even if you get good matching boards, its possible some might color shift differently than others. So another thing to consider. I will check, I might have a before and after picture to post.

  13. #28
    Apologies for this drift off topic.
    Here on the west coast storm doors are seldom used but weatherstripping remains a primary concern.
    For much of the mid-late 1900s interlocking brass weatherstripping was the industry standard. It was a time consuming process requiring special router attachments for both the door and jamb plus some kerf cuts by hand against the stops.

    Does anyone know if these materials and practices are still available?
    Mark

  14. #29
    It’s still needed ,so I’m sure it’s available. The best stuff was sold in straight pieces, not rolled up. It was always the high end ,and
    often only sold at specialty places, not chain hardware stores. It has spring to it, Kids love to pluck it to make music, and that’s okay
    if they are shown how to do it right.

  15. #30
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    Kilian hardware and a few others have it. Difficult to install and not thermally efficient but lasts a long time.

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