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Thread: Anyone good with concrete?

  1. #1
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    Anyone good with concrete?

    I'd like to make a concrete step at my cabin by the door. In the pictures you can see I have a wood step now. It's about 6" high. I'd like to pour concrete that would be the same height but about 4 feet square.

    I was thinking of anchoring the step to the cabin slab by drilling into the existing slab and inserting a couple of pieces of rebar that would be embedded in the new step. Then I would pound either rebar or pipe into the ground to help keep the step from drifting or sinking away from the cabin. It's about 3 feet down to ledge rock so I could easily pound the supports down.

    Good plan or am I nuts?IMG_1063.jpgIMG_1064.jpg
    Confidence: The feeling you experience before you fully understand the situation

  2. #2
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    Thats the way I was trained to do a landing like that. If there is concern about settling, we use poured piers rather than driving rods. How to get the concrete for a small job is a dilemma. Our Ready Mix company has a 3 yard minimum. Quickrete Is OK. I chose to bring in gravel, sand, and Portland cement (3-2-1) for a project out in the boonies and hand mixed. It is a big help to have or rent a mixer.
    Last edited by Maurice Mcmurry; 05-27-2023 at 8:32 PM.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  3. #3
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    Frost will heave the slab up and down in WI, if that's where the cabin is. Might be better not to tie it to the cabin slab, in case they want to go in different directions, but that's just my uneducated opinion.

  4. #4
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    We always drill the re-bar for aprons, walks, patios, and landings into the building. The assumption is that there is going to be settling around the buildings footing or foundation. This is in our building code. Frost used to be an issue here. The ground has not frozen hard or deep for many years (sad face).
    Best Regards, Maurice

  5. #5
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    Rebar should be entirely encased in concrete and not exposed anywhere.

  6. #6
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    Although Houghton is what we call up Nort, we do get frost heaving. My biggest concern is that the step would start to tip away from the building causing a slip hazard or wonky landing when coming out of the door. That's what I hope to avoid with the rebar or pipe driven down to the ledge rock.
    Confidence: The feeling you experience before you fully understand the situation

  7. #7
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    The best base would be posts/poles down to bedrock or at least below the frost level. Heaving is primarily the result of poor drainage which is a result of the soil type. If your "soil" is sand or gravel it mitigates the issue.
    I wouldn't attach it to the building but let it float. 4x4x6" isn't that big and can be re-leveled as necessary at the corners.
    I had to replace a front porch with about 6 stairs and purchased a pre-cast unit. Perhaps, you can find something suitable from a pre-cast supplier. They are lighter than a big full-thickness slab. I had to re-level my pre-cast stair once and even for a piece that size it wasn't that hard to do.

  8. #8
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    I could not tie it to the house for the heaving reason mentioned. Put in a good, compacted stone base and put a piece of fiber or foam expansion material between the step slab and the concrete wall so the new slab can float independently. If you drive some rebar down into the ground and tie it to a small grid of rebar "in" the slab it will keep the step slab more or less in place but the slip between it and the house will still be able to move slightly with the seasons and reduce the chance of cracking.
    --

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  9. #9
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    I think it very much depends on your soil type. If your soil is free draining and mineral (which it looks like to me, though I could be completely wrong), I would probably flatten a spot and pour it directly on the ground. If the soil is expansive, you could remove 6" or so and replace with drain rock. Add #3 bars, 18" o.c. If you take care to get the bottom flat, you will always have a a nice stoop, and you can reset it if necessary. At 4sf, and 6" thick, it'll weigh about 300 lbs.
    Last edited by scott lipscomb; 05-29-2023 at 9:06 PM.

  10. #10
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    If heaving is a worry, I would consider something like heavy pavers that could be reset without a great deal of trouble. I don't know of any that thick, but surely there is such a thing.

  11. #11
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    Your post brought back a memory, I saw a similar project made with 24"(?) square pavers set into a PT wood frame to get the height. I think this would make releveling easier since you would only have to deal with the outside frame possibly, rather than adjusting individual pavers.

  12. #12
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    Given the issue of frost heave (42" in Houghton), I would not pour concrete. Concrete is not cheap and a lot of work to put down footings and tie into cabin. I would just make a 4 foot square deck using 2 x 6 and deck boards. You could level the deck each year to keep it right.

    I know this is not what you asked but that is what I would do. For a 4" thick slab that is 4 ft square you would need 18 40# bags of Quikrete. Putting down piers or footings would increase that number a bunch.

  13. #13
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    Don't rebar it to the concrete slab of the cabin. As has been said put a buffer between the two pours like 1/2" insulation board. You will get movement from frost regardless of drainage. With a good base of rock and otherwise undisturbed soil underneath you shouldn't have settling issues. My previous home had poured in place steps at two locations. One at the side door into the garage and one onto the front porch. Both had settled at the rear next to the foundation. I believe it to have occurred because of the soil not being stable yet when poured. I was able to pick the steps up with my tractor loader and put gravel down and reset them. They went down a couple inches over about a 15 year span. The other option is as has been covered would be some "piers" down to below frost line or in your case to the rock 3 feet down. Those who live where it never freezes don't realize how much movement occurs with frost.

  14. #14
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    Anything that close to the backfill for the house foundation will tend to tilt toward the house. When I poured our patio extension here in Iowa I Rebarred it to the existing, no issues in 15 years.
    Last edited by Bill George; 05-30-2023 at 1:01 PM.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  15. #15
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    It sounds like the cabin might be a floating slab. I certainly would not tie something like that to the existing slab if you intend to use footings in the new step. The slab would move while the step might not move.

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