Am I the jerk here?

[John Keeton]

This thread has taken on a life of its own! It reminds me of the sharpening threads I have enjoyed reading. I’m still waiting on the sharpening thread that describes in detail and documented with high resolution photos, an edge on an iron that is a single straight line consisting of single crystal atomic structures of the steel used with all the structures aligned point to point.

[Patrick Baney]

4 pages and almost 2 weeks of discussion over the tiniest amount of measurement, not performance of a chisel, confirms my belief in the futility of what the woodworking hobby has become. First in purchasing a $150 chisel, and then not even cutting wood. Our ancestry of noble craftsman must be spinning in their graves.

Thanks for checking in Richard. Two weeks and you're still missing the point of this thread. The point was to get an idea of how fellow woodworkers hold manufactures to the standards which are advertised. I clearly stated in my original post that I wasn't here to discuss the importance of squareness in a mortise chisel. Nor was I here to provide a review on the performance of said chisel, so I'm not sure what wood-cutting update you're expecting. Truth be told, you're right - I haven't used the chisel yet. Maybe when my 2 & 3 year old grow up I'll have more than a couple hours a week to validate such a futile thread with some performance updates.


Since the price point is such a hot topic...do we also think Lie Nielsen's 1/4 mortise chisel is overpriced at $125? If so, fine, then we stalemate at the age old argument of new vs old tools. We can put that argument where the sharpening arguments are. If not, then do some research on their handle design and compare it to IBCs, and you'll find the additional $25 is well spent.

I appreciate the input everyone else has provided. It has given me some perspective on both sides.

[Mark Maleski]

It's also true that for $150 the vendor better damned well deliver the tool with the silly specifications they trumpet.

That’s hilarious! Honestly this entire thread could’ve been distilled down to just that one line.

[Tony Zaffuto]

That’s hilarious! Honestly this entire thread could’ve been distilled down to just that one line.

That’s the crux of the matter: if you’re selling a bill of goods with stipulated tolerances to support a stratospheric price, you need to supply those tolerances.

Personally, I view those specifications only as a gimmick to get the newbies, etc, to buy.

[Rafael Herrera]

This thread also reminds me of this story. I was in New York city for work and decided to swing by the Tools for Working Wood store. I enquired about the Ray Iles mortise chisels. They had some in the back room, the salesman told me there were minor cosmetic issues with the chisels, they won't ship those to customers because they know they'll be returned. When I asked how much would they sell them to me it was full price, so I declined.

One pays for quality, but how one knows something has good quality where it matters is a different story. In my opinion, when they slap someone's name on a product line, that to me is a red flag. I could care less if a product has Rob Cosman, Rachel Ray, or Martha Stewart on it. These people either are paid to have their name used or are banking on their fame to jack up the prices. It's a marketing gimmick.

The OP is not a jerk, he has the right to demand what they advertise. He could have gotten a better bang for his bucks somewhere else, but that's a different topic.

[steven c newman]

So...how much would they charge for of these?
Tool kit, refresh day.JPG
6 chisels sitting there..and being used....Hmmm$150 each? Or....$1.50 each?

[Keegan Shields]

$150 each only if you can forge a passable Rob Cosman signature

[Tony Zaffuto]

The spaceship tolerances are not needed, but if some goomer is selling that sizzle with the steak, then buyers will be ticked when they find they could have bought a perfectly acceptable Narex for 25% the cost of the high priced spread.

[Patrick Baney]

Rob's name is nowhere to be found on these mortise chisels. It's an IBC chisel which Rob distributes and markets. These chisels can also be purchased directly from IBC.

The spaceship tolerances are not needed, but if some goomer is selling that sizzle with the steak, then buyers will be ticked when they find they could have bought a perfectly acceptable Narex for 25% the cost of the high priced spread.

No. I have two narex mortise chisels and their parallelogram geometry makes it impossible to chop a rectangular mortise. They're visibly out. Some may be ok with this, but I am not.

[steven c newman]

Just use a couple Narex Mortise chisels on the Garden Bench I just finished for the Gazebo.....no issues found IN the chisels.
Bench Frames, depth of cut checked .JPG
I also have a 12mm Japanese Mortise Chisel...and a Witherby 3/8" Mortise chisel.....other than width...no differences found...
Bench Frames, Back rail mortise .JPG
These were 3/4" deep, BTW, IN Ash....

28 6mm wide mortises....with a 6mm Narex Mortise chisel...
A Chopping Day, lay outs .JPG
No issues found..

[Ron Selzer]

That’s the crux of the matter: if you’re selling a bill of goods with stipulated tolerances to support a stratospheric price, you need to supply those tolerances.

Personally, I view those specifications only as a gimmick to get the newbies, etc, to buy.

agree, 100%
doesn't matter what someone else can do with a $1.50 yard sale chisel. If you advertise something with high specs for high dollars, then you better deliver.
Ron

[Jim Koepke]

…

No. I have two narex mortise chisels and their parallelogram geometry makes it impossible to chop a rectangular mortise. They're visibly out. Some may be ok with this, but I am not.

Maybe it was my day to get lucky when my 1/4" Narex mortise chisel was purchased.

It works fine:

Mortised Rails.jpg

There are twenty four fine mortises, a few extras were cut for checking, tenons for square and marking for draw boring.

If their geometry made them useless, the vendor would have been called. At a price of less than twenty bucks they may have asked if I could grind it myself or they may have offered a replacement.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

I enquired about the Ray Iles mortise chisels. They had some in the back room, the salesman told me there were minor cosmetic issues with the chisels, they won't ship those to customers because they know they'll be returned. When I asked how much would they sell them to me it was full price, so I declined.

Did you see the chisels? I often find with product in hand and an offer to take the worst one they have is often good for 5-10% to make the deal.

One time at a hardware store that had been closed for years the people who owned it finally had a closeout sale. I had gone back for second look.

It was my intention to try again for a snath (the long handle on a scythe). One of the other people who was in line with me earlier told me the snaths were now tagged at $8. Only one of them in the bundle was. After cutting the bundle string and extracting one of the nicer ones, my request to get it tagged at $8 like the other one was met with a claim that it should be $15. The one with the $8 tag was a bit rough. The guy gave me a strong vibe that if the one marked $8 wasn't taken, the tag was going to be removed. So the one with the $8 tag was taken. We got to talking about the blades. It turns out they had all already sold. My blade is good, but the snath is a bit rickety. My blade is marked Shapleigh, when told about this and how that name was changed to Diamond Edge the guy told me the blades they had were Diamond Edge.

The snath works fine and a little sanding took care of the rough areas.

We recently purchased a new freezer. One of the delivery people showed me a tiny ding on the door. He told me to call it in and that it would noted in the paperwork. He said I should ask for 25%. The dent was smaller than a dime and it is almost unnoticeable. The rep on the phone offered my 15%. I took it as it was more than the cost of the extended warrantee.

It comes down to know what you are buying and sometimes you can negotiate a break and sometimes the vendor will send you less than that for which you bargained.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

Did you see the chisels? I often find with product in hand and an offer to take the worst one they have is often good for 5-10% to make the deal.

I did. The handle and the blade where not in alignment, the handle was a bit twisted with respect to the blade. I asked for a discount, he called his boss and asked. The answer was no discount. In any case, I was not convinced the misaligned handle would not be a problem in actual use. Those chisels are like $120, so they're not cheap. I bought other tools, but passed on the chisel.

[steven c newman]

What I USE in MY shop, YMMV, of course...
Cheap Mortise Chisels, side view .JPG
Hmmm..I guess I have a 10mm instead of a 12mm Narex....
From front to rear:
3/8" Witherby
10mm Narex
8mm Narex
6mm Narex
12mm Japanese
1/4"
and 1/8" wide Mortise chisels...
Cheap Mortise Chisels, well used .JPG
Looks like it...all I worry about is IF they are sharp enough to do the jobs