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Thread: Am I the jerk here?

  1. #31
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    Most probably, yeah, I don't think he does it out of the kindness of his heart. And it's okay as long as the brand fulfills what Rob says in his promos.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Most of the time my chisel acquisitions are merely eye ball inspected.

    My recollection is most of them looked straight enough for me.

    A few chisels of one type tend to have a belly. They may have been made that way or they may have been whacked a lot.

    Though the majority of my chisels were found preowned.

    Maybe check the mortise chisels next time in the shop.

    jtk
    my 1/2" is marked Thoe Ibbotson
    Looked closer at my 1/2" mortise chisel today, it appears to be THOs IBBOTSON as the makers mark.

    Checked my mortise chisels and my large 1" framing chisel against a straight edge. All of them except the Narex are laminated. All of them show a little bit of light between the back and sides of the chisel when held against a straight edge. Mostly the laminated chisels had a little belly to them on their backs. The worst was the framing chisels at maybe 0.010". It was in pretty rough shape when it came my way.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 05-30-2023 at 5:40 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #33
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    Shop Clean Up, refreshed tools .JPG
    There are 4 Mortise chisels in the photo....Narex....Witherby. and a 12mm japanese...no real issues with any of them....None cost me more than...$10....YMMV..
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  4. #34
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    Steven, before I read your post, I was going to say you probably have the same number of 150 dollar chisels that I do. I see now that you do.

  5. #35
    I’m just guessing here, but I bet Rob is restating the specs from IBC. He should probably check a few batches, update the tolerances on his website, and then complain to IBC.

    But just a guess on my part.

  6. #36
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    He has posted a video in the past where he shows the process of taking every chisel he sells and checks the back for flatness with feeler gauges on a large granite surface plate. I'm not sure if he checks the sides of mortise chisels though.

  7. #37
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    Jan 2008
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    Don't forget to leave a review on his website as well. It will be telling to see whether it shows up...

  8. #38
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    Nov 2015
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    Maybe this is me being silly but...what are you building that 5 thou on a chisel even makes a perceptible difference? I mean, I get wanting what you ordered so I've got no problem with asking for a refund or replacement. But this definitely feels like a 'perfect is the enemy of the good' situation.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Jayko View Post
    Maybe this is me being silly but...what are you building that 5 thou on a chisel even makes a perceptible difference? I mean, I get wanting what you ordered so I've got no problem with asking for a refund or replacement. But this definitely feels like a 'perfect is the enemy of the good' situation.
    When paying $150 for a chisel I would expect it to meet the specifications, as well as the hype, attributed to it.

    Cossman often talks of his diligence in working with the manufacturing facility to make sure his followers/customers get the finest tools available to woodworking kind.

    It isn't on the customer/buyer to "put up and shut up."

    Someone needs to get on the ball and make sure customers are getting the item and quality for which they are paying.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    When paying $150 for a chisel I would expect it to meet the specifications, as well as the hype, attributed to it.

    Cossman often talks of his diligence in working with the manufacturing facility to make sure his followers/customers get the finest tools available to woodworking kind.

    It isn't on the customer/buyer to "put up and shut up."

    Someone needs to get on the ball and make sure customers are getting the item and quality for which they are paying.

    jtk
    I'm not saying that per se, I'm just saying...if you need feeler gauges to find defects in a chisel...you might be missing the forest for the trees. Also, resellers / manufacturers make these promises that won't accomplish anything. Does anyone really think that a mortise chisel that is .0025" out of spec is going to make a difference in their work? I would say "you're not making a piano," but I don't think it would even matter if you WERE making a piano...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Jayko View Post
    I'm not saying that per se, I'm just saying...if you need feeler gauges to find defects in a chisel...you might be missing the forest for the trees. Also, resellers / manufacturers make these promises that won't accomplish anything. Does anyone really think that a mortise chisel that is .0025" out of spec is going to make a difference in their work? I would say "you're not making a piano," but I don't think it would even matter if you WERE making a piano...
    James, my point is the buyer has a right to expect what was "sold" will be they same as what they receive. Even with the best vendors errors can happen.

    An old axiom says, "the difference between an amateur and a professional is how they handle their mistakes."

    In this case the "mistake" wasn't handled professionally. The reply from customer service was very unprofessional:

    They said they’d take special care to find one that meets my expectations.
    Then they sent him a bench chisel, is that their idea of "special care"?

    Clearly they didn't have someone who knows anything about chisels fill the order. It seems they also didn't bother to have an informed employee to inspect any of the replacement chisels in this farce.

    As said previously, some of my mortise chisels have a slight belly. Two of them have been around at least 200 years. They have a bow from front to back that appears to be less than what Patrick. According to Patrick, the IBC chisel was bowed over the sides. Chopping mortises is heavy duty work for a chisel. That is why mortise chisels tend to be built rather robust.

    Will a side to side bow become worse with use?

    Will it impair making a straight mortise?

    If someone was selling me a plane claiming the sole was flat to a half thousandths of an inch and it was five thousands out I would not be happy. Many of my old Stanley planes came with soles flat to one thousandths of an inch or better.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    When paying $150 for a chisel I would expect it to meet the specifications, as well as the hype, attributed to it.

    Cossman often talks of his diligence in working with the manufacturing facility to make sure his followers/customers get the finest tools available to woodworking kind.

    It isn't on the customer/buyer to "put up and shut up."

    Someone needs to get on the ball and make sure customers are getting the item and quality for which they are paying.

    jtk
    I agree: if you sell the accuracy you had better deliver the accuracy. Has Cosman even researched the history of IBC’s manufacturing?
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  13. #43
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    Does RC give any tolerances on anything besides flatness? (0.0005)? I looked at the website and saw where they tout the flatness of the back, but I didn't see where they call out tolerances for straightness or squareness. Still, 0.005-inches out of straight does seem a bit excessive. I have to imagine it was warping in heat treatment.

    Sending the wrong chisel to replace it seems more like a mistake than an indication of systemic poor customer service. Everybody makes mistakes.

    I'm inclined to give Cosman the benefit of the doubt until I hear a lot of people making similar complaints.

    DC

  14. #44
    Honestly, 0.005" off straight could be a machining burr or a slight ding from handling. Same for the 0.002"-0.005 " out of parallel. I would stone the sides with a fine India stone to verify it's not just a burr/ding before doing anything else. Very likely that dimension will be much closer to zero after deburring with an India stone.

    I would also debur the bevel-side of the chisel. Break those sharp corners so they don't dig in when you're levering out waste. I would leave the back flat and sharp to the sides, but I would still give it a good lick on a fine honing stone to make sure you remove any burrs.

  15. #45
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    Sending the wrong chisel to replace it seems more like a mistake than an indication of systemic poor customer service. Everybody makes mistakes.
    To me as one who has worked in more than one stockroom, it indicates a person who wasn't paying attention to what they were doing or possibly didn't know the difference between a bench chisel and a mortise chisel. When the rep said, "they’d take special care to find one that meets my expectations." Someone somewhere dropped the ball, BIG TIME.

    Honestly, 0.005" off straight could be a machining burr or a slight ding from handling.
    Slight ding from handling? Is this chisel made of soft butter?

    My heavy chisels are bashed with heavy mallet and do not have such slight dings. Some of my chisels have been dropped on a cement floor without getting such slight dings.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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