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Thread: Am I the jerk here?

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Am I the jerk here?

    Am I the jerk here?

    Sorry for the length…

    I’d like to share my peculiar experience with a well-respected tookmaker/distributor within the community. First and foremost, I have nothing but respect for Rob Cosman. I’ve purchased numerous products from him, and they’ve all been great, but I’m at a bit of a loss over my last purchase (and interactions with customer service) and I’m left wondering, am I just being a picky jerk here? Anyways…

    I ordered a ¼ mortise chisel sometime in March. I specifically wanted a mortise chisel with sides square to the back. Please hold the lecture on whether or not this matters, I’m not here for that. These are a selling point for Robs (IBC) mortise chisels and he stresses the importance of squareness.

    Received Chisel 1: I received the ¼ chisel about 10 days later after the voyage from Canada. I was disappointed to find the edge beat up and a sideways bow (bend) in the blade totaling about .005 from end to end. You could spin the thing like a top. Does this matter? Not sure, but of all things…a mortise chisel. Sure, I could have reground the edge, as I’ll do many times, but for $150, this is unacceptable. Next business day they accepted the return and send out a replacement 3 or 4 days later. They said they’d take special care to find one that meets my expectations. This rubbed me the wrong way as I don’t think my expectations are anything beyond what’s being advertised. Anyways..

    Received Chisel 2: Another 10 days or so, the replacement arrived. Total bust – it was a ¼ bench chisel. Clearly, special care was taken. Sent a less friendly email and a third chisel was on the way, but not before 5 business days. Is my frustration showing? Sorry..

    Received Chisel 3: couple weeks since the second chisel arrived, a ¼ mortise chisel arrived. This chisel had an identical bend as first. Ok…whatever I’ll just accept the bend I guess. Then I noticed…both mortise chisels I received don’t have sides square to the back. They’re both identically about .6 degrees out. Rusty trig suggests these chisels are out of square by about .004, double the advertised .002 tolerance. This is easily observed by all my squares.

    I reach out to customer service about the identical bend and out of square sides. Though, I mentioned that I’m willing to accept the bend at this point. I didn’t hear back until I reached out over a week later (purple heart class was running, so I guess CS stops. I get that…I guess). My response was that Rob and Jake said the bend isn’t an issue. The chisels being 2x out of square tolerance was not addressed at all in the response. Also, I'll point out that with every communication, I reinforced that I'll be sending back any chisel they want for review or whatever. I made it clear I wasn't trying to hang on to the chisels that were out of spec (or the wrong type...).

    I reply that my real issue at this point is them not being square and that if they can’t provide one in spec then I’d like to return all of them for a refund. A few days later I got a return form for all three chisels.

    So, I guess that’s that, they’re unwilling or unable to provide a ¼ mortise chisel to the advertised spec.This is disappointing as most of my other chisels are IBC and I really didn’t want an oddball mortise chisel. Am I being a jerk here? Too fussy? I debating just eating crow here and keeping one, but the whole experience really rubs me the wrong way.

  2. #2
    No, you're ot the jerk, you're the customer.
    If they can't provide what they advertise and are unwilling to work with you, their loss. take your business elsewhere. Somewhere where you get what you pay for.

  3. #3
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    Never feel "wrong" for speaking with your wallet. It doesn't matter what service or item we are buying or how much or how little we pay. You should get what is agreed on or get a refund. All sounds as though it is well except maybe for your broken expectations. Factor your experience in when making your next purchase from whoever or wherever. And thanks for sharing so we can all learn from your experience.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  4. #4
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    I do understand steel can warp after milling. Hard to account for that when cutting corners though.

    I wouldn't pay 150 bucks for a chisel anyway, but certainly wouldn't on one that is not as represented. My old Ulmia's are straight.

  5. #5
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    You can come close to being a jerk here when you get on the internet and put down a long rant about an experience. They did provide chisels to you, but not to your specs. Their customer service sounds good, they did all they could do, but just don't have a supplier that meets your specs. Move on and buy from someone else, but you've already done the damage to Cosman with this post. If you really do respect him as you said, you would delete the post. But your post is like that "I don't mean to be rude.......", but yet it continues and it is always rude.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    but not to your specs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    meets your specs.
    Here's that "your specs" language that their customer service used. You don't know my specs, but I'll tell you, to be clear. My specs are exactly what he has advertised, and those should be upheld. To be clear, the chisels I received were double the advertised tolerance. If they don't have a supplier that meets these specs, then they shouldn't be listed on their site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    you've already done the damage
    Have I? Pretty sure they did that when they sent me two out of spec chisels, and one completely different type of chisel, prefaced with "special care" about "my" specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    If you really do respect him
    I do respect him, and it's fine if you think one gripe about what's likely not his direct doing disqualifies me from respecting him.

    My post may have some snark, but I've clearly left the door open to this being a me issue. Many who read this will absolutely roll their eyes over me fretting over .6 degrees on a chisel that's often intentionally trapezoidal.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Not a jerk to expect the product you bought to MEET THE ADVERTISED SPEC.
    appreciated the warning posted here about what you received and how you were talked to.
    Ron

  8. #8
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    I agree you are not the jerk.

    How did someone send you a bench chisel? Are their stock pickers totally untrained?

    Your experience indicates a lack of quality and a lack of care about their customers.

    I have had similar problems with some vendors and have been made somewhat happy by a total refund.

    This can happen when a company is selling a product handled by a fulfillment warehouse and the seller never actually has the product in their possession.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #9
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    You are absolutely not the jerk.

    I also think someone in CS owes you an apology for the "your specs" comment. It was snide, rude and totally uncalled for.

    I'd like to believe that if Rob Cosman knew about your experience and the potential harm to his reputation he'd be horrified.

  10. #10
    Somehow, I can only hear the thread title in the voice of Meg Ryan from "When Harry met Sally".

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Your experience here is a big reason I prefer to deal directly with the manufacturers of tools rather than a reseller. IME, a quality manufacturer really takes pride in their specs. The reseller just wants to clear inventory.

    At this point, try a different brand. My 1/4” LN mortise chisel is square and straight. You might give that brand a go.

  12. #12
    I have had a similar experience buying turning tools, 3 different times from two different sellers. This was over a 1-2 year period of time about 8 years ago.

    First case, Seller 1,
    Bowl gouge arrived with a bend. I called and got the speech about how after heat treating.....
    I sent it back, they paid shipping, I and got a replacement.
    Second time Seller 2,
    Same issue, only this time after an apologetic description of the heat treating..., I was sent a replacement, no questions asked.
    Number three, back to seller 1,
    Same thing again, I mentioned that I had had this issue previously with them. This time I got an abrupt answer and was told if I paid shipping, I would get a replacement. I reluctantly paid and sent it back for a refund.
    I now find myself reading the return policy before I purchase, I won't get fooled again.

    IMO, if a seller sends you a defective product, it's their responsibility to reconcile the situation completely., 100%. You as the customer should have to pay zero dollars and waste no more time. You already spent time and money to purchase the product as advertised, anything more is on them.
    I'll take photos or return the item on their dime but that's it.

    A vendor should want to take care of there customers and stand by their product. If the seller in the OP did, then this might have been a glowing review of customer service. Now, how ever many people view this thread, might think twice after reading his experience.

    Risky buisness ticking off customers, you don't know the reach they may have. Ignore your customers at your own peril.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    The customer is always right, and sometimes they really are.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    So this is a truth in advertising issue? I wonder if Mr. Cossman is aware of the issue at all? Sometimes you have to go above the normal customer service and try contacting a manager/owner.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Brown View Post
    So this is a truth in advertising issue? I wonder if Mr. Cossman is aware of the issue at all? Sometimes you have to go above the normal customer service and try contacting a manager/owner.


    Eric, I somewhat agree with your point but at the end of the day, as they say, it's his business and he should know what's going on.
    The customer should not have to jump through hoops to get an issue resolved.

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