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Thread: Apollo Turbine w/ Fuji hose (& gun)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew whicker View Post
    Also, have either of you experienced "craters" in your paint? Is that due to bad prep on my part? Gun too close?
    I saw a crater in one of your photos. Looks a lot like fisheye, which typically is caused by some type of oil or other low surface tension material, with silicone being the most feared culprit because it's so hard to get rid of. If you plan to spray much you would be wise to ban any silicone product from your shop.

    As for prep, sand, vacuum, blow off with clean air if you want, but don't wipe it with a tack rag. You can use a microfiber cloth or shop towel with DNA or water if you want. I normally just vacuum.

    Sometimes you can mask the fisheye with a light coat of dewaxed shellac, just wiped over it, and then another coat of finish when that's dry. And that's the common solution when working on furniture that needs to be refinished, since they often were waxed with products containing silicone.

    John

  2. #17
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    I thought about going that route, but I'm already invested. The new 5 stg Apollo came in last night. It definitely atomizes MUCH better. So maybe I'm down to just getting better on my end and no longer the gun.

    Below is what my results look like (white paint). Attached is a pro cabinet painter (gray paint). So I guess I'm on the right track. He is spraying SO MUCH faster than I am AND his gun looks 3 inches away when he sprays (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg6qJKykZFw). So it would seem he is spraying super heavy. I'm staying right at .004" thickness, but doing it slower per pass and I'm spraying more like 6 inches away.

    I do like his vertical spray setup.

    My Paint _ Turbine _ SW Emerald.jpg

    Paint _ Turbine _ SW Emerald.jpg
    Last edited by andrew whicker; 05-20-2023 at 5:06 PM.

  3. #18
    I have sprayed Benjamin Moore Regal interior and exterior paint, substantially thinned, through my 5 stage HVLP (which also happens to be an Apollo and probably has similar capability to yours). Not sure how Regal compares with the SW product you mention, but I offer my experiences as a point of reference. Out of the can, Regal has a viscosity of multiple minutes through a #4 Ford cup. To get it down to something more like a minute took a lot of diluting with water and Floetrol/Extend. I'm not sure what the ratio was, since the times I've done this, I just kept adding and measured my results based on the cup, but I'd bet it was more like 35% than 10%. At that point, using a 2.0 or 2.5 N/N, I got something that was readily sprayable and laid down somewhat like what you show (hard to judge from a picture). I'd rate the result, when dry, as sufficient and appropriate for interior trim and exterior shutters, which is what I was doing, but probably not what many might want for kitchen cabinetry (unless maybe the goal is a "painted" look). Note that the heavy dilution definitely did affect the sheen, particularly for high gloss, which ended up being more like semi-gloss.

  4. #19
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    Hi Jeff,

    I'm completely failing at painting at this point. I thought I was getting somewhere with white, but I tried color today and to my dismay I had similar results... very rough and lots of cratering / fisheyes. I assumed color would look worse, but this isn't even close to acceptable quality. I have no silicone in my shop. I just think that the paint is spraying on too dry, too thin and not atomizing.

    I also feel like "I can't get the paint wet enough while also atomizing". I'm pulling my hair out watching youtube videos of supposedly successful spraying w/ turbine but I just don't buy it unless high gloss sprays differently. I'm also betting a lot of them are using oil based. Satin SW Emerald is NOT spraying well and I fail to see how anyone could spray this stuff successfully. This can't be brain surgery. I think on this project I'll bump up to Semi Gloss to see how things go.

    My question to you.. if I sell all of this and start over ($1.5k ish) would I be able to get something like what you are using? You said you're using a CAT express gun ($600), a 2.5 gallon pressure pot ($ 300 to $400?). That's fine. That's like a $1k I think. However, I only have a little pancake compressor. I have zero line filtration.

    So I'm looking at 1) gun, 2) pressure pot and 3) compressor w/ filters. I'm assuming this comes out above $1.5k. Which is why I went the route I did. A self contained package really appealed to me.

  5. #20
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    Andrew, are you spraying Emerald or Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel? Emerald sprays just aweful, but Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel sprays great for me.


    John

  6. #21
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    Sprays well in Satin using Turbine HVLP?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew whicker View Post
    Sprays well in Satin using Turbine HVLP?
    What product are you talking about? My comments above were with a pressure assisted HVLP conversion gun. If you are using SW's Emerald Urethane Trim paint I don't see why you can't get good results with a 5 stage turbine if it runs at 8 or 9 psi at the nozzle and to the cup. That product sprays great in my gun when thinned 10%.

    John

  8. #23
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    Okay, I think I got it. I've been trying to get my atomization dialed in (small droplets), but when I do that I have basically no fluid flowing thru the gun (~ 1/4 to 1/2 of the trigger pull w/ 1.5 N/N and cap). Hence it sprays "dry" and slow.

    So today (after getting a quote done) I'm going to basically open up the fluid as open as possible. i.e. just lots of fluid and don't worry about the atomization as much. I've watched that professional cabinet painter in the video above a few different times and there is simply no way he is moving that fast without basically spraying wide open. Also, the still shots I posted above seem to suggest the same: he's throwing on a LOT of paint. He says is using a 1.4 N/N and cap. So my 1.5 setup shouldn't be that different.

    So, I THINK (haven't tried yet) that I was thinking of spraying this water based paint like I see oil based being sprayed. However, I don't THINK 10 psi is enough to make water based act like oil based (atomize it well enough while maintaining fluid output). Also, the SW product recommends using airless (~3,000 psi / product unthinned) which makes me further believe that this product is going to be difficult to spray at 10 psi.

    I THINK with this product, I either have to spray it nearly wide open on 10 PSI OR I have to have a higher pressure to atomize the paint properly so that it acts more like oil based.

    I'm also considering using a 1.7 CAP w/ 1.5 N/N.

    Maybe all of this was said above and it's just now getting thru to me. Sorry if I'm repeating what people have already been trying to tell me.

  9. #24
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    Alright. I think I'm getting air entrapment and my paint is just a bit thick. Unfortunately I'm just adding water for experimentation without measuring. I'll have to use the viscosity cup if I find the right mix.

    Also, I may be spraying too close and too slow

    20230608_200304.jpg
    Last edited by andrew whicker; 06-08-2023 at 10:10 PM.

  10. #25
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    Very early in this thread I posted my gun settings:


    I use the following settings with my conversion gun to spray Emerald Urethane. 1.5 mm needle, 10 psi at the nozzle, 6 psi to the cup, and I thin the Emerald Urethane 10% with water. I do not use BM's Extender with it, as I didn't need it.

    10 psi is plenty to get a great finish. I only run 6 psi to the cup, which will be less than yours, and I get plenty of fluid flow. Of course, you have to open up the needle enough to get sufficient flow. Maybe that's where you are going wrong. Don't worry so much about perfect atomization. Worry about what set of conditions gives you a perfect finish. If it's dry then you don't have enough flow or your gun is too far away from the surface.

    If your gun can generate 10 psi it has more than enough capability to spray Emerald Urethane Trim paint very well.

    John

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Very early in this thread I posted my gun settings:


    I use the following settings with my conversion gun to spray Emerald Urethane. 1.5 mm needle, 10 psi at the nozzle, 6 psi to the cup, and I thin the Emerald Urethane 10% with water. I do not use BM's Extender with it, as I didn't need it.

    10 psi is plenty to get a great finish. I only run 6 psi to the cup, which will be less than yours, and I get plenty of fluid flow. Of course, you have to open up the needle enough to get sufficient flow. Maybe that's where you are going wrong. Don't worry so much about perfect atomization. Worry about what set of conditions gives you a perfect finish. If it's dry then you don't have enough flow or your gun is too far away from the surface.

    If your gun can generate 10 psi it has more than enough capability to spray Emerald Urethane Trim paint very well.

    John
    Thanks much for all your replies and your patience. I think it's all finally getting thru to me. : )

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