Questions on All-in-One machines

[Ray Bahr]

Like Felder, MiniMax, etc.

I am looking to add a jointer to the mix AND manage space as well. The Combo machines seem like they might be the solution.

What are the opinions of folks with these machines? Felder vs MiniMax vs Robland?

Thanks

Ray

[Richard Coers]

I've owned a Minimax LAB for around 25 years. The only major issue has been a broken switch. Minimax wanted $450. I found a similar one on eBay and my electrical guy spent hours reverse engineering. Only cost $100. For me, the most annoying feature is the rip fence/jointer fence combination. Very annoying working with hardwood. Joint an edge, make a ripping cut, then joint again is a 3 step process with the fence. My machine was a demo unit and the company had added a Beismeyer knock off. Got a Felder for work, and we added a Beismeyer on it. The jointer table mounting is a bit annoying on the Minimax. If the tables aren't co-linear, it's a real pain to reset them. Converting to thickness planer is a lot of cranking to drop the planer tables and flip over the dust collector. But overall, great machines. 12" jointer is a huge plus!

[Jim Becker]

Full combos offer a lot of functionality in a reasonably compact space, although the larger ones are not very "tiny", which shouldn't be surprising. IMHO, these are best for an individual woodworker who wants "all the toys". A reasonable compromise is a Saw/Shaper and a separate J/P combo which works better in some shop settings relative to space. I did the separate slider and J/P myself as that's what fit in my previous shop and I've stuck with that at the new shop. I personally don't have a major need for a shaper for "what I do". Both SCM/Minimax and Felder have very nice offerings. Robland has been around for awhile but doesn't have quite the market presence as SCM and Felder in the US. But the Robland brand is now under Martin and that should help.

[Ralph Okonieski]

I will echo Richard’s comments. I have 5 function minimax so it is a little different than just jointer/planer but in many respects the same holds true. Jointing, ripping and planing have to be thought out carefully to avoid rearranging the machine on every operation. I bought the combo because my shop area is so small that separate units would not fit. That said, I would do it again without hesitation. The machine is high quality. The only issue has been a capacitor went bad; SCM was NOT able to source the capacitor so that is a black mark against them for such a simple, low cost component. I was able to find some from England; bought three for less than $50 including shipping.

[Dave Sabo]

They are great if space is at a premium.

The brands you listed are in order of quality, though SCMi is arguably as good as Felder. Hammer (a Felder div. ) should be thrown in there as well. Robland is def. bringing up the rear in quality, offerings, and service. Jim’s info is out of date - Martin no longer represents Robland , and didn’t really do much except sell off of it when they did rep. them.

Robland has been through at least three stewards in N.America in the last 10 years. If you can get a used one in good /working condition and cheap - they’re a bargain. If not , stick to the other brands.

[Greg Quenneville]

I have had Felder full combos twice now and like them for the space savings. Since my current projects require a shaper I bought a used stand-alone machine as well. When my shop becomes primarily a garage I will again have only the combo machine.

[Allan Dozier]

I have a Minimax 410 Elite and have had no significant problems but like Jim said it is not a space saver if you are looking at a combo that can handle full sheet goods. Switching between the saw and the jointer/planer is no different than using a separate machine with mine. Using the shaper however takes longer. I still have my PM 8" jointer and 20" planer so I only use the jointer when I need to joint up to 16"

[Jim Becker]

Jim’s info is out of date - Martin no longer represents Robland , and didn’t really do much except sell off of it when they did rep. them.

I was unaware there had been a marketing divorce, thanks for the clarification. The last time someone asked about the brand, it was still listed on the Martin site as a brand they were handling.

[Dave Sabo]

I was unaware there had been a marketing divorce, thanks for the clarification. The last time someone asked about the brand, it was still listed on the Martin site as a brand they were handling.

Not only that - the new "guy" is parts only. New machines aren't available stateside.

[Jim OConnor]

SCM & Felder offer really good machines across a wide spectrum of prices. From that perspective, it comes down to preference. The most significant difference I found is the higher end Felder’s can be split between the saw/shaper and the jointer/planer (if you order that option). For me that made all the difference to being able to get it in my shop. Without that I would have had to hire a professional rigging company to lift the machines up and turn them sideways through the door. Splitting them allowed the use of a pallet jack and a friend to move them in.

once in the shop, the big machines are going to sit in the middle of the shop. You won’t have them along the walls. Yes… they can be moved….. you won’t want to! They are heavy. It’s still possible to move them…. The smaller machines are much more practical to move.

I have had no issue with going back and forth between the jointer and saw because I don’t rip using the rip fence. I use the slider and a couple of optional parallel fences. They are available from the manufacturer or after market. While an expensive option, one that is well worth it.

as to the “5th” function. Think about a domino machine vs the horizontal boring capability. I find I use the Domino and let the auxiliary 5th function machine sit in a corner and take up space….

[Greg Quenneville]

I agree about the fifth function. I had a CF731 combo with the mortiser. It needed a cart to remove the very heavy cast x-y table, special bits etc. And it was always in the way when jointing. The next combo I bought used had the same attachment.I gave it away.

A domino XL is probably cheaper and better. A Maka SM7 is definitely better but not at all cheaper. The combination machines’ mortise tables are all too small to securely mount long work pieces. And even if you could you would still have extra shaper tooling to buy to make the tenons.

Another benefit of combination machines is the simplified dust extraction…place the machine adjacent to your extractor and you can likely get by with one* length of flex hose instead of fixed ducting. *Actually two hoses when you vent the overhead saw guard. My extractor sits between my combo and my bandsaw and serves both with only two flex ducts.

Not mentioned so far is the reduced rip capacity of a full combo, and the inability to install a long digital rip fence read-out. Small combos can be augmented with a track saw for wide rips which is my $olution to expand the envelope of my combo.

I mentioned shapers before. Change over from saw to shaper is time consuming, and it almost always means that you have to dimension extra stock before profiling so that an unforeseen mishap doesn’t mean a wasted hour going back and forth between set-ups. You will also need some kind of mounting bracket for a power feeder which is also a cost item.

Where I live a good condition used shaper with power feeder costs around USD $800 while a mounting bracket for the combo costs $400. And you rarely see power feeders sell separately. It’s easier to find 10 square feet for a used stand-alone shaper than it is to swap back and forth during a complex build**

**: My projects are architectural scale lately, and I have been milling a big period house load of door parts, baseboards, casings, crown, stair treads etc. . Furniture scale projects could easily be managed with an extra piece being dimensioned prior to profiling without an extra shaper on hand. But don’t get the mortiser.

[Warren Lake]

no issues with the mortising on the SCM combo as the mortise is on the back of the machine. Any machine will need support with long material. I wouldnt use the robinson without support on long and its an 1,800 lb machine. Its same as a table saw it should have an extension table.

The older SCMs the saws were primarily for ripping heavy solid. The old guys I knew all had a separate table saw or one ran two. Thats a good set up plus you could have more than one person working.

[John TenEyck]

Combo machines are a compromise. I would think hard about how important space savings is over convenience. If you decide you don't have the space for separates, then ask yourself if you have room for a couple of dual function combos rather than one full combo unit. I have a MM J/P combo and am very happy with it. My friend has a 5 function MM combo and is less than over the moon with it.

John

[Rod Wolfy]

I'll join in agreement with John. I had a Felder all in one. It was kind of a hassle having the jointer bed being part of the table saw "capacity", or removing the shaper parts to run a piece through the table saw. I sold it.

I now have a Sawstop, a Festool track saw (to cut down sheet goods) and a Hammer 16' J/P.