Power and hand together (2): we have cases!

[Derek Cohen]

It took me a while to realize what bothered me about this thread. It is not that glued miters might or might not be strong enough for the application. The real anomaly here is that Derek has made a case WITHOUT a couple dozen flawlessly executed secret miter dovetails in a nearly-impossible-to-work species. What is the world coming to ...

Very attractive work with some wonderful explanations. Thanks Derek.

I think that you have something there, Dave. There has been much over-reaction, although I admit that I could have taken more time to explain this area. I just did not think it to be such a huge issue as made out by a few.

It is not as if I - and many others - have not built mitred boxes or enclosures without reinforcing the mitres. Here are just a few of those I have done in the past. No dovetails, no biscuits (splines), no dominos ….

I have used this pencil box every day for the past 12 years …





I was reminded in another member’s post today of this box made for the Veritas Combination Plane. It has been bumped around for 5 years …




I lug this tool box to demonstrations. I am not especially gentle with it …





And more recently I built a new plinth and isolation table for a turntable. The isolation table has compound mitres …





Now it is important to emphasise that I am not recommending that one use un-reinforced mitres indiscriminately; assess the demands and the determine the risk. For example, a small box may have thin sides and thin mitres, but there is relatively less chance of the panels flexing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

The end to end failed at the glue line. A mitre joint is not so different.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Years ago in Fine Woodworking someone described making boxes with unreinforced miters, perhaps speaker cabinets. Expecting challenge on the technique, he pointed out that he had been doing it for decades after a test (admittedly in plywood so the miter was partly sidegrain) in which the box was thrown hard many times to the concrete floor without any corners breaking open. Can crossgrain splines strengthen? Sure. But this sounds strong enough for many uses to me.

[Derek Cohen]

Thank you for understanding, Alan.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Allen1010]

Derek look forward to seeing rest of build thread- the design is interesting and the execution of your strategy is, as always, impressive. Not interested in further discussions of relative merits of joinery glue strength. One of the beauties of our craft is we all have our own experience, which may differ from person to person. IMHO it's completely fine that there are multiple ways to skin a cat - to each his own.. Now on with the show!!

[Frank Martin]

Derek look forward to seeing rest of build thread- the design is interesting and the execution of your strategy is, as always, impressive. Not interested in further discussions of relative merits of joinery glue strength. One of the beauties of our craft is we all have our own experience, which may differ from person to person. IMHO it's completely fine that there are multiple ways to skin a cat - to each his own.. Now on with the show!!

Totally agree! Looking forward to seeing the rest, especially the base, the secret drawer, and the overall design.

[David Carroll]

Totally agree! Looking forward to seeing the rest, especially the base, the secret drawer, and the overall design.

Same here, I am particularly intrigued with the little drawers!

I also like how the grain matches all around with the mitres.

DC

[Mike Allen1010]

I have to say the grain wrap on the carcass is gorgeous! great example of Derek’s attention to detail and execution, that IMHO are the difference between ordinary and extraordinary. I’m definitely making a piece like this just for the grain wrap.

[John Erickson]

Derek thanks for your post on mitre glue-ups, it's always insightful to have your input. Like yourself I like mitres but what's notable is many of your posts and articles contain mitres from over several years. On another note I never thought to do what you've done to a turntable, it's beautiful.

[Rafael Herrera]

We were shopping at a store in New England and I noticed an old display cabinet, unused. The top used splines in the mitered joints. One side looked in good shape, the other one not so much. The top was not hinged, so it was attached, presumably, in a non stressed configuration. If a splined joint can fail in this configuration, would you still risk it by just gluing the parts?

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[Derek Cohen]

What is the history of that piece, Rafael? It looks very rough and weathered.

Interesting method of adding a spline. Very neat. I like how it is hidden.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rafael Herrera]

Unfortunately I didn't ask. The picture with the plaque shows the maker. It was a well made, big display cabinet, nice muntines, see the plaque picture. The store is in Bar Harbor, by the ocean, tough weather.

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

thank you. well said

[Assaf Oppenheimer]

I'm relatively new to woodworking. I know about sizing but only maybe 6 months or so, a Lost Art Press blog brought it up. I've been reading all things woodworking for a while so I wouldn't consider it something everyone would know...

[Keegan Shields]

Derek, really cool thread and I look forward to seeing the completed piece! Love the small drawer and the mechanics inside used to ensure a smooth action.

Seems like the advice to "use the right joint for the right task" applies here. Totally agree that glued miters work for some situations. Scarf joints would be further along that strength continuum. Good for boat planking where the ribs provide support, but I wouldn't use a scarf joint for load-bearing timber that is unsupported across a 10' span. Its all about the proper application of each joint type. Perhaps that's where woodworkers vary in opinion.

I (probably like others here) tend to over build furniture because the downside (failure) usually outweighs the upside (time savings) and because we build a lot of one-off pieces. That's what I find fun about making chairs - there's not a lot of room for overbuilding on a chair if you want to keep it visually and physically light weight.