Electric Cars Anyone?

[Alex Zeller]

I'm waiting to see what 2024 brings. With so few cars getting the rebate I expect most brands to start making more batteries and EVs in the US. I'm hoping something like the next gen Rav4 plug in hybrid has more range. If it could get 100 miles on the battery before needing the engine to kick in I think I would be very temped.

[Doug Garson]

The push by the present administration to essentially have mostly/all electric cars by some future date. The infrastructure challenge is huge in making this happen, and I'm really not sure how getting multiple electric car owners in an apartment complex to have their cars conveniently charged (or charged at all) can happen. To me, this is an insurmountable challenge that just isn't being discussed. The current requirements to have, lets say, 100 cars charging at the same time would be (if my math is remotely correct) approximately 0.96 MW. And that's for each moderately sized apartment building. How is this remotely possible? For single homeowners, charging infrastructure is easy, and really not very expensive to implement. But for more dense housing???

Definitely a challenge but what's the alternative? Keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere at current rates?
Average miles driven in the US per year is about 13,500 miles, average range of a 2021 EV is about 217 miles so, on average each car gets charged about 62 times a year or just over once a week. Those are based on 2021 numbers, battery technology is constantly improving and by 2025 most EVs will have a range closer to 600 miles which would require charging less than twice a month. Any laws I've seen call for a gradual phase out of the sale of ICE vehicles over several decades, many ICE vehicles will still be on the road for decades after that. Think of it as a challenge rather than throwing up your hands and suggesting it is impossible.

[roger wiegand]

Standard Oil opened the first drive-through filling station in 1912, by 1920 there was a nationwide network of paved roads and filling stations were ubiquitous. During that decade an entire oil extraction, gasoline refining, and distribution industry was created to serve the needs of gasoline cars. Somehow I have confidence that if there is money to be made businesses will respond to fill the gaps in the current electrical infrastructure, faster than any of us can imagine. There will surely be bumps along the way, just as a cross country road trip was a heroic adventure with spotty availability of fuel, tires, and repair facilities in 1915. I wouldn't underestimate the ability of entrepreneurs to come up with new models of local generation and small scale storage to address a significant fraction of the need without massive infrastructure projects. Even today, we'd just need to add one car size battery (in terns of kW, not physical size) to our existing house system to be able to keep our car going for local trips with no draw on the power network at all. I don't know exactly what it will look like, but my bet is against more and bigger of the same as what we've done for the last century.

My wife will tell you I'm an eternal optimist.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thanks Lawrence. I will do the same to avoid a derailment.

[Larry Frank]

The infrastructure requirement for EVs is very great and one that needs addressing. However, it seems there are no plans on how to get enough electricity, distribute it and build chargers. It seems like there is just this mandate for EV without addressing the underlying issues.

[Bill Dufour]

I heard that-anyone know what happened to this idea?

The Ford pickup has only a five foot bed. The generator and fuel tank takes up two feet leaving a three foot bed. Probably unsafe to pack too much up against the hot generator. At that point just get a BEV station wagon, sorry SUV. No one calls them a station wagon or hatchback anymore. SUV is more modern and high tech.
Bill D

[Greg Funk]

The push by the present administration to essentially have mostly/all electric cars by some future date. The infrastructure challenge is huge in making this happen, and I'm really not sure how getting multiple electric car owners in an apartment complex to have their cars conveniently charged (or charged at all) can happen. To me, this is an insurmountable challenge that just isn't being discussed. The current requirements to have, lets say, 100 cars charging at the same time would be (if my math is remotely correct) approximately 0.96 MW. And that's for each moderately sized apartment building. How is this remotely possible? For single homeowners, charging infrastructure is easy, and really not very expensive to implement. But for more dense housing???

It doesn't have to happen overnight as even when a high percentage of new cars are EVs there will still be a large number of ICE vehicles for the next 20-30 years. Around Vancouver all new Multi-Unit residential building have been required to have 100% of parking stalls equipped for level 2 EV charging since 2018. Commercial buildings are also required to have a reasonable % of stalls equipped for charging. Eventually, as more people adopt EVs, they will force their building stratas to install charging support. it will happen first in areas with more expensive real estate and trickle down to other areas over time.

[Dwayne Watt]

A major part of the electric infrastructure improvements will come (and are being built) in the form of wind and solar farms. Before anyone chimes in that the wind doesn't always blow and it is dark 50% of the time, these problems are being resolved with large quantity energy storage solutions (think BIG batteries or super capacitor arrays) to collect and store excess energy production. That said, living in what is referred as a flyover state, I am not ready to adopt pure EV. Distances are too great for successful use (work commutes, yes...serious local, rural travel not so much). Folks in plains states routinely travel distances that coastal folks in urban areas cannot fathom. PHEVs are the solution in my part of the world for the foreseeable future. If I were in the market for a new vehicle, PHEV would be high on the shopping list for me. My last couple of purchases came close but the costs were not right for the type of vehicle I desired.

[Alan Lightstone]

It doesn't have to happen overnight as even when a high percentage of new cars are EVs there will still be a large number of ICE vehicles for the next 20-30 years. Around Vancouver all new Multi-Unit residential building have been required to have 100% of parking stalls equipped for level 2 EV charging since 2018. Commercial buildings are also required to have a reasonable % of stalls equipped for charging. Eventually, as more people adopt EVs, they will force their building stratas to install charging support. it will happen first in areas with more expensive real estate and trickle down to other areas over time.

Fascinating. I was just reading through the Vancouver laws regarding this. I've heard nothing suggested about this in the US. If you ever get a chance, I'd love to see a picture posted of one of these garage parking spaces with multiple Level 2 EV charging stations.

It looks like existing buildings will have to comply only by 2030. And Vancouver/BC seems to be way ahead of the curve on this, but kudos to BC.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see this. I am a believer. I have a fully solar house and electric car. But I don't think I'll see this fully integrated in the US in my lifetime, much less China and India, to name a few.

[Allan Dozier]

I read somewhere that Walmart will be installing charging stations of their own at each of their centers. I have used Electrify America chargers at Walmart a couple of times but these new ones will be owned by Walmart. I hope that as more businesses see the need and the possibility of a new profit center that they will proliferate. If they don't it still won't effect me much since I will continue to charge 95% of the time with level 2 chargers at my two homes.

[Jim Becker]

Alan, I think that there will be a growing uptick in "private label" charging with businesses including retail because it can be yet another revenue stream. Just like gas station owners don't make a lot "per gallon", the same will likely be true "per kw" for folks setting up charging stations as a profit center. But with volume over time, things should work out. What you will not see a lot of is as rapid a growth of installations of DC fast charging en masse because the entry cost for that is substantially more than for AC L2 chargers.

[Greg Funk]

Fascinating. I was just reading through the Vancouver laws regarding this. I've heard nothing suggested about this in the US. If you ever get a chance, I'd love to see a picture posted of one of these garage parking spaces with multiple Level 2 EV charging stations.

It looks like existing buildings will have to comply only by 2030. And Vancouver/BC seems to be way ahead of the curve on this, but kudos to BC.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see this. I am a believer. I have a fully solar house and electric car. But I don't think I'll see this fully integrated in the US in my lifetime, much less China and India, to name a few.

To be fair most new condos in Vancouver are well over $1000/sq ft so the incremental cost of adding a charger outlet is relatively low. There are a few pictures here of some typical installations: https://veva.ca/EV-Ready
The province of BC also offers fairly generous rebates to condo stratas for adding charger support.

[Mike Henderson]

The push by the present administration to essentially have mostly/all electric cars by some future date. The infrastructure challenge is huge in making this happen, and I'm really not sure how getting multiple electric car owners in an apartment complex to have their cars conveniently charged (or charged at all) can happen. To me, this is an insurmountable challenge that just isn't being discussed. The current requirements to have, lets say, 100 cars charging at the same time would be (if my math is remotely correct) approximately 0.96 MW. And that's for each moderately sized apartment building. How is this remotely possible? For single homeowners, charging infrastructure is easy, and really not very expensive to implement. But for more dense housing???

A large building, like an apartment complex, would likely be served by a 44kV circuit (with transformers to drop the voltage to 120/240 for household use). 1 MW at 44kV is about 23 amps. Shouldn't be a problem.

Mike

[Even if it was served by a 4.4kV circuit, it would only be 230 amps.]

[Edwin Santos]

Fascinating. I was just reading through the Vancouver laws regarding this. I've heard nothing suggested about this in the US. If you ever get a chance, I'd love to see a picture posted of one of these garage parking spaces with multiple Level 2 EV charging stations.

It looks like existing buildings will have to comply only by 2030. And Vancouver/BC seems to be way ahead of the curve on this, but kudos to BC.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see this. I am a believer. I have a fully solar house and electric car. But I don't think I'll see this fully integrated in the US in my lifetime, much less China and India, to name a few.

That's brilliant. Otherwise, what's a resident with an EV going to do? Rely on offsite charging? That would get old fast.
I assume they have some login process where the system knows what resident is using the charger so the power will be charged to them. And if the parking garage is open to charging visitors, then there's an income stream for the building too.

[Greg Funk]

That's brilliant. Otherwise, what's a resident with an EV going to do? Rely on offsite charging? That would get old fast.
I assume they have some login process where the system knows what resident is using the charger so the power will be charged to them. And if the parking garage is open to charging visitors, then there's an income stream for the building too.

I think they're administered by a charging company for a monthly fee. Not as convenient or inexpensive as charging in a detached home but it's manageable.