Chisel Sharpen Feedback Requested

[Greg Parrish]

I've probably spent way too much time on this, but I've been working on a 3/4” Lie Nielsen chisel that was as new from LN. I went through motions to flatten/polish the back on 5,000 and 8,000 grit shapton stones per the LN sharpen instructions. Then, I loaded the chisel up in my LN guide and set to 35 degrees per the measurements in their sharpen guide. Started on the 1,000 stone for around 30 strokes. Then moved to the 5,000 stone for around 45 strokes. Then to the 8,000 stone for around 45 strokes. Then I removed the chisel and lightly polished the back on the 8,000 stone, pulling the tip backwards onto the stone from the far side. I repeated this about 5 times to tame any bur.

So, at the end of the day, I have a fairly large polished area on the top of the chisel that shines in the light, and I have a very slight polished sliver just at the tip on the back. Seems like I did everything right per their instructions. But, I'm wondering if I have too much polished/sharpened? Also, when I tried cutting a piece of printer paper, it cuts but leaves some little tears. Not quite razor blade sharp, but still sharp.

I see people take their plane and chisel blades down to razor blade sharp in youtube videos, but I'm not seeming to get there. I didn't strop the blade after sharpening and maybe that's it, but is it practical on a chisel to go any sharper than I did? Or am I missing something in my process. Want to pin it down before I hit the other chisels on hand.

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Sharpen stones and flattening plate I'm using

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1” LN chisel on left as I received it. 3/4” LN chisel on right after my sharpening.

chisel1.jpg
Zoom in of the 1” as received from LN.

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Zoom of the 3/4” after sharpening. Hard to get better pictures on my phone camera.

[Charles Guest]

It should cut printer paper absolutely cleanly, with no tearing. In fact, you should be able to hold the chisel near its end and cut curves and shapes in paper while suspended in mid-air in your off hand and the cuts all come out clean. Cheap $10 chisels can easily be brought to that level of sharpness with a remarkably small amount of honing equipment.

Something has gone awry in your somewhat overwrought routine.

[Greg Parrish]

Hmmmm..... I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong then. The routine I followed was taken directly from Lie Nielsen's sharpening guide: https://www.lie-nielsen.com/pages/downloads

As mentioned, I have it to the point it will slice paper, just not as cleanly as you mentioned. I'll give it some more tries tonight to see as maybe I just need a little more honing on the higher grit to clean up the cut a little more.

[Charles Guest]

It really shouldn't take more than three minutes or so if the back was flat from the factory and already had a little polish. The jig is somehow betraying you, slipping perhaps. I can cut cheap paper towels cleanly without tearing and with a Marples Blue Chip off a Washita, much less printer paper with Lie-Nielsen, Shaptons, etc.

[Jim Koepke]

Greg, it isn't the number of strokes that sharpen a chisel, it is making sure the effort is done correctly.

On any grit, a burr should be raised. My tendency is to remove the grit on the stone that made it before moving to the next stone.

If you let a big bur grow before removing it, it can leave a rough edge when it is removed. A small bur may come off after 1 or 2 strokes. A heavy bur might not be fully removed after 5 strokes. Use your fingernail to feel for a bur.

Stropping may help, but can also be detrimental if done too much on a soft strop.

jtk

[Greg Parrish]

I just watched one of the LN videos on chisels with Angie Kopacek found here: https://youtu.be/Qi_etQP6OIw

What I find interesting is the chisels she is using have a much more polished back. At around 1:03 in the video you can see an almost mirror finish on the chisel back. The LN claim to come perfectly flat and ready to lightly hone, but maybe I misunderstand what that means. Maybe I need to spend a little more time polishing and flattening the back on mine, and then start the process over.

Per Jim’s comments above, I was wiping between grits but I never did really get a visible but. Maybe something I could just feel. Anyway, I’m going to go back to square one and start over. Thanks.

[Charles Guest]

Polish the back on your finest stone. See if the scratch pattern goes all the way to the cutting edge all the way across the chisel. If it does not, you're going to have to drop back a few steps in grit and flatten it then bring it up to polish on your finer stone or stones. Luckily, this shouldn't take very long on a half-inch chisel unless it's outright defective. Hold the chisel flat on the stone and use the whole stone. Don't put a death grip on the chisel or lean too hard on it. Just firm enough to make sure it's registered to the stone. If the back is flat and polished all the way to the cutting edge all the way across the chisel, then you've eliminated the back as a potential source for the trouble you're having. Once you have it in this state, you never go back to lower grit stones for the back of the chisel. You're simply wiping the burr off the back and flipping it to the front or polishing it completely off depending on how fine your media is. A2 probably won't throw up a scratchy burr on very fine stones. There should be something there, but it won't feel like 01.

If the scratch pattern indicates the chisel has a "belly" then send it back -- they put the bevel on the wrong side of the chisel. You can flatten one that's bellied, but it'll drive you nuts first. Hopefully the back is slightly concave and you'll immediately produce polish at the cutting edge. You do not, and should not, flatten it until the concavity is gone. It's your friend. It will go away over time, but that's to be expected. For now, just hope that's what you have.

Pressing very hard will not make the process go faster. In fact, it prevents the stone from working as it should. Let the stone do the work.

[Greg Parrish]

Okay, here is where I'm at. Spent the last hour flattening and polishing the back further, and then honing the front again. I honestly don't know if it's the chisel or if this is normal. It will slice paper now, but still hangs up a little. It's certainly sharper and I can feel that difference on a piece of maple end grain, but I feel like it could still be sharper. I just don't know if its normal to need to do 1.5 hours of flatten and polish on the back of LN chisels to get them ready to become razor sharp, or if I'm still missing the boat somewhere.

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3/4" on left after flattening/polishing back. 1” on right as received from LN.

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Front edge of the 3/4"

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Rear edge of 3/4” This was after flattening and sharpening. Looks rough still but also the metal looks strange. Can't quite get it zoomed in enough for detail. As mentioned, it will start to shave paper, but eventually hangs up. Is that maybe still a slight but on there that I can’t feel but can see zoomed in?

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Here they are side by side in better light.


So, looking at the zoom in of the back edge, it still looks to have issues to me. Don't know if that means I need to flatten it further, or honestly what I need to do. The LN chisel set are fairly new to me in that I bought them over the last 8 months, but finally got to a project where I want to use them and have gotten around to trying to get them setup.

[Charles Guest]

Register only the first inch or of the chisel rather than practically the whole thing - only the amount you need to keep it firm on the stone. You're spending time flattening and polishing too far up the chisel. The 1/2" clearly is not sharp, polished, and flat all the way to the edge.

[Steve Mathews]

Back of the 1/2" looks like it has somehow gotten a bevel on it. Register only the first inch of the chisel rather than practically the whole thing. It's probably not completely flat in its length and it's getting tipped up on the stone somehow.

I noticed the same thing. The back should be completely flat for the first inch or more. I've brought LN chisels back as far back as the tang would allow. Also, and just as importantly are you flattening your stones periodically. You won't achieve flatness on the chisel without a flat stone.

[Charles Guest]

I noticed the same thing. The back should be completely flat for the first inch or more. I've brought LN chisels back as far back as the tang would allow. Also, and just as importantly are you flattening your stones periodically. You won't achieve flatness on the chisel without a flat stone.

But at the moment he needs to only worry about the first inch or so of the back. That's why I edited my post. It may very well have a bevel on it and it's not going to go away if he tries to flatten and polish the entire length of the chisel.

[Greg Parrish]

I noticed the same thing. The back should be completely flat for the first inch or more. I've brought LN chisels back as far back as the tang would allow. Also, and just as importantly are you flattening your stones periodically. You won't achieve flatness on the chisel without a flat stone.

But at the moment he needs to only worry about the first inch or so of the back. That's why I edited my post. It may very well have a bevel on it and it's not going to go away if he tries to flatten and polish the entire length of the chisel.

Well, I’ve attacked the flattening process twice now. I’ve spent nearly 2 hours working on it. I flattened my stones before starting. Then after each pass I flattened again. Basically, I followed a LN video showing dividing the stone into 3rds long ways and working the first third across and back, then the second third across and back, and then the full stone across and back. Then they show rotating the stone and repeating. Then flatten and go again.

https://youtu.be/9aDPZzMvVTA
See around 4:30 mark

Just doesn’t make sense to me to need this much work for a $100 chisel. I really don’t know how to identify problems like bellies or bevels, but I don’t think I’ve done anything incorrectly to cause the issues so far. I could be wrong, but I’ve been following their processes exactly the way they are showing them in their videos. It honestly has me questioning the chisel, but who knows, maybe its me.

[Steve Mathews]

But at the moment he needs to only worry about the first inch or so of the back. That's why I edited my post. It may very well have a bevel on it and it's not going to go away if he tries to flatten and polish the entire length of the chisel.

But if you concentrate on only the first inch or so you may have a tendency to let the chisel dip forward. Why not register off as much of the back as possible and then stop when the first inch or so is flat. Also, the number of strokes is irrelevant. Achieve flatness first with the coarsest stone with as many strokes necessary. Some chisels take more time, some less. Then use the next higher grit stone to only remove the scratches left by the coarse stone. Again, you won't achieve flatness on the chisel without a flat stone. This is a time consuming process and there are no shortcuts.

[Tom M King]

The backs don't look close to being flat and polished to me. In one shot it even looks like there is a back bevel at the edge.

[Greg Parrish]

But if you concentrate on only the first inch or so you may have a tendency to let the chisel dip forward. Why not register off as much of the back as possible and then stop when the first inch or so is flat. Also, the number of strokes is irrelevant. Achieve flatness first with the coarsest stone with as many strokes necessary. Some chisels take more time, some less. Then use the next higher grit stone to only remove the scratches left by the coarse stone. Again, you won't achieve flatness on the chisel without a flat stone. This is a time consuming process and there are no shortcuts.

I’m going to take another crack at it later tonight. I think I see what Charles is calling a “bevel” in the close up picture of the back. it looks like there is a small line running across behind the edge where maybe it isn’t flat right near the edge. Not sure what would cause this or if it could have come this way, but I’ll start at the 1000 grit again and work my way up.

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