Hand Saw Taper Grind?

[Tom M King]

I would love the challenge, but am tied down at home caring for my 107 year old (Birthday today) Mother. I'm the only one who can pick her up to transfer her, and otherwise it's a miserable existence for her to have to stay in bed.

Charles, I doubt you have any idea how much I've used handsaws over the past five decades. I won't take your money, but even if I wasn't tied down at home, it would not be worth a grand to travel anywhere.

Here is a picture of my first sawbox that I made in 1974. I sat on it many days eating lunch. I never bought old handsaws and fixed them up, but bought new to use. Back then, you could still buy a decent handsaw. This box also carries the long backsaw used in the Langdon-Acme that I bought new and trimmed out new houses with for 18 years before I ever found a powered miter box that I liked. Picture was taken just a few years ago, and some of those saws are still used.

Steven, I wouldn't be worried about sawing any body parts off.

Also attached is a sample picture of siding that was always cut with a handsaw, with marking by a preacher. Also one of the houses that every piece of replacement siding was cut such a way so that no caulking would be used on the house. Every piece was painted on the ends before being put up, which is why the preacher has paint on it (sorry, couldn't find pictures of the preachers easily). That white house is an 1828 house, so not much is still plumb and square on it, hence the advantage of using a preacher rather than measure and mark.

Those siding ends might look like they are tight, but you can move each one in and out with a finger, so they're floating. If you force one in tightly, it will open up the one below. That siding is protected by a 14' porch roof, so it didn't need to be sealed. It was 27 years old when I took that picture. I'm sure every piece would have been right off the saw.

I have no doubt that I could tell you which one was tapered, but which one was tapered more than another one, and also how many teeth per inch it has if the wood I'm cutting is one I've used before.

I'll be glad to do this challenge any time anyone wants to oversee it, but it's no telling how long I'll be tied up here like I am now.

[Charles Guest]

Not making a comment on your skill or experience other than in the narrow context that you couldn't identify whether or not you were using a taper ground handsaw if you were blindfolded and therefore couldn't tell anything about the saw by sight.

Years ago, I built an 1100 sq. ft. A-frame cabin off the grid, with no power tools, but I don't call myself an accomplished carpenter. I'm a bench woodworker.

[Jim Koepke]

you couldn't identify whether or not you were using a taper ground handsaw if you were blindfolded and therefore couldn't tell anything about the saw by sight.

That doesn't make sense. Even if it were true about not identifying what was being used blindfolded, there is no basis for saying one couldn't, "tell anything about the saw by sight."

In a piece of greenwood even an amateur like myself would be able to notice the difference between a taper ground and non-ground saw by the way it would bind in a cut of more than a few inches.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

That doesn't make sense. Even if it were true about not identifying what was being used blindfolded, there is no basis for saying one couldn't, "tell anything about the saw by sight."

In a piece of greenwood even an amateur like myself would be able to notice the difference between a taper ground and non-ground saw by the way it would bind in a cut of more than a few inches.

jtk

A saw doesn't need a taper grind to keep from binding in the cut. If you think it does, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of hand saws.

[Tom M King]

What I was trying to say was that I'm sure I could not only tell you which saw was tapered and which one not if I was sawing with them blindfolded, but could tell you which one was tapered more than another one, as well as how many teeth any saw had.

For instance, it's easy for me to tell that the Sandvik saws I like have less taper grind that Disston's, but they are better for working up on scaffolding like an Alum-A-Pole workbench because the ever so slightly stiffer saw is better for sawing in odd positions, such as holding the board vertical while more in front of you than on a saw horse. The taper they do have is still good enough to not need such wide set.

You can get by with one with no taper, but you need a wide, honking set on the teeth, and slight variations in set make a noticeable difference to a skilled person with a handsaw. For one with no skill it might seem like it would make no difference, but it would eliminate the possibility of acquiring anything above a rudimentary skill level.

Taper grinding does matter. They didn't do it for fun, or to save metal back when they were used all day, every day. Those that don't believe it, or are trying to sell saws without it are uninformed or worse. As Mark Twain said, it's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled.

Here's one of the Sandvik's making an out of position cut.

[Jim Koepke]

A saw doesn't need a taper grind to keep from binding in the cut. If you think it does, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of hand saws.

Of course, putting more set than is needed for dry wood can cut without binding. That is a wider kerf than I prefer, if the saw is going to be used for different woods with different moisture content.

In my opinion there are enough saws in my shop without having two or three different saws for every occasion.

jtk

[Tom M King]

If one is not going to use a piece off the saw, and you just want to shorten a board to do some other operation to the end, it makes no sense to put a lot of time and effort into what saw is used. You may as well just use the cheap hard toothed saws.

[Warren Mickley]

If one is not going to use a piece off the saw, and you just want to shorten a board to do some other operation to the end, it makes no sense to put a lot of time and effort into what saw is used. You may as well just use the cheap hard toothed saws.

No. In cabinetmaking we often knife the board all around and saw very near to the line, then plane to the line. A nice saw cut lets us saw close to the line and have minimal stuff to remove with the plane. A rough saw cut and the evidence runs deep into the piece.

[Tom M King]

That makes sense, and would be the way I would do it too if I ever had that sort of need. I use power tools too though. I wonder how long it really takes for someone to learn to be able to do this, and if the buyer of an expensive saw even knows what the goal is.

You're still only talking about staying a few thousandths away from the line, which really requires no less skill than sawing to the line.

[Jim Koepke]

When cutting to the line this is my goal:

Clean Edge Saw Cut.jpg

The knife marking can be seen all around. One or two passes on with a shooting plane makes a smooth clean end.

jtk