bay window bench.

[Michael J Evans]

Hi all
Couple years ago now, I promised the wife I was going to build a bay window bench seat. Like look built in, but not. I even made a post in The design forum asking for advice.

Well I put it off because I just didn't feel confident in my skills. Still don't feel confident in my skills as I've never really built cabinets and have no freaking clue what I'm doing, but it's time to get over my paralysis and get this done. Almost all my projects have been solid wood tables, benches, little boxes. Etc.

So I'm still semi paralyzed because this will be front and center in the living room, but decided I'm just going to start cutting.

Space is 106" wide, 20" deep and floor to top of bench will be approx 18" tall.

The middle window (flat wall) is approx 66" across. The two triangular walls are approx 20" each.

Plan is to make 3 or 4 cabinet boxes. Either two in the middle 33" each, or one wide one 66", then the two outer triangle boxes 20".

Would 3 or 4 boxes be better / easier in this scenario?

The plan for under the bench in the middle 66" section is to have 3 drawers. Then the two outer sections to have 1 door each.

I have electric outlets in each of the angled walls (reason for door on each end) . I also have a HVAC duct in the space, that I guess I'll have to cover.

I plan two extend the baseboard (2.25" tall) across the front of these cabinets / bench to give a finished look. Then add a 1" hardwood top for the sitting portion. Leaving me only approx 15" in height for the cabinet boxes / drawers / doors.

Another question I'm stuck on is should I build a separate base for the cab boxes to sit on or just make the floor (bottom panel) of my cabinets 2.25" up for the baseboard? The only reason I see given for separate base is for leveling purposes?

Besides the above two questions another thing I'm stuck on is how to get the reveal I think it's called the same across the whole face. Like if I make the three middle drawers the same size, then there is a large gap between the 3 drawers and the outer two cabinet doors. I can make the doors wider, but then that makes my doors wider than they are tall, which I just think will look stupid, right... Any advice on this?

I've been closely looking at all cabinets I've come across and all doors are taller than wide.

Finally drawer / door hardware. Is this universal, meaning will I be able to find slides to fit whatever depth I end up building or do I need to design around hardware. Plan was to build the boxes then figure that out.

Besides all that any advice for a first time cabinet / built in builder?

Sorry all the above babbling and poor writing. As you can probably tell writing is not my forte. Hopefully it all makes sense.

Thank you
Michael

[Thomas McCurnin]

Fine Homebuilding Magazine had an article on built in benches with some nice design features (slightly angled back, build using boxes, then site assembly) by Andrew Young a few years ago.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Deleted after thinking more on this...

[Lee Schierer]

A few comments:

Hi all
Couple years ago now, I promised the wife I was going to build a bay window bench seat. Like look built in, but not. I even made a post in The design forum asking for advice.

Well I put it off because I just didn't feel confident in my skills. Still don't feel confident in my skills as I've never really built cabinets and have no freaking clue what I'm doing, but it's time to get over my paralysis and get this done. Almost all my projects have been solid wood tables, benches, little boxes. Etc.

So I'm still semi paralyzed because this will be front and center in the living room, but decided I'm just going to start cutting.

The hardest cut in a project is the fist one.

Space is 106" wide, 20" deep and floor to top of bench will be approx 18" tall.

The middle window (flat wall) is approx 66" across. The two triangular walls are approx 20" each.

Plan is to make 3 or 4 cabinet boxes. Either two in the middle 33" each, or one wide one 66", then the two outer triangle boxes 20".

Would 3 or 4 boxes be better / easier in this scenario? Drawer some sketches roughly to scale and see how they look. Your significant other will have an opinion.

The plan for under the bench in the middle 66" section is to have 3 drawers. Then the two outer sections to have 1 door each.

If a table will eventually be placed in that are, forget the drawers.

I have electric outlets in each of the angled walls (reason for door on each end) . I also have a HVAC duct in the space, that I guess I'll have to cover.

Do not cover any heating/cooling vents you will regret it. Instead make a wooden duct to allow the air to get out from under the cabinet.

I plan two extend the baseboard (2.25" tall) across the front of these cabinets / bench to give a finished look. Then add a 1" hardwood top for the sitting portion. Leaving me only approx 15" in height for the cabinet boxes / drawers / doors.

Another question I'm stuck on is should I build a separate base for the cab boxes to sit on or just make the floor (bottom panel) of my cabinets 2.25" up for the baseboard? The only reason I see given for separate base is for leveling purposes?

No base is needed if your floor is flat. If you want a toe kick then build a base.

Besides the above two questions another thing I'm stuck on is how to get the reveal I think it's called the same across the whole face. Like if I make the three middle drawers the same size, then there is a large gap between the 3 drawers and the outer two cabinet doors. I can make the doors wider, but then that makes my doors wider than they are tall, which I just think will look stupid, right... Any advice on this?

I've been closely looking at all cabinets I've come across and all doors are taller than wide.

Make double doors to get a wide opening.

Finally drawer / door hardware. Is this universal, meaning will I be able to find slides to fit whatever depth I end up building or do I need to design around hardware. Plan was to build the boxes then figure that out.

Drawer slides come in various lengths. A 20 inch deep cabinet should allow you to use and 18" drawer slide. I would suggest full extension slides.

Besides all that any advice for a first time cabinet / built in builder?

Don't use rally nice hard wood for hidden pieces or if the cabinet/seat is to be painted.

Sorry all the above babbling and poor writing. As you can probably tell writing is not my forte. Hopefully it all makes sense.

Thank you
Michael

Take your time. Let us know how you are progressing.

[Brian Tymchak]

Hi all
Couple years ago now, I promised the wife I was going to build a bay window bench seat. Like look built in, but not. I even made a post in The design forum asking for advice.

I remember that post. Don't feel bad. I've still got projects in the planning stages that I started 10 years ago...

...
Space is 106" wide, 20" deep and floor to top of bench will be approx 18" tall.

The middle window (flat wall) is approx 66" across. The two triangular walls are approx 20" each.

Plan is to make 3 or 4 cabinet boxes. Either two in the middle 33" each, or one wide one 66", then the two outer triangle boxes 20".

Would 3 or 4 boxes be better / easier in this scenario?

The plan for under the bench in the middle 66" section is to have 3 drawers. Then the two outer sections to have 1 door each.

Since this is to be a bench seat, your primary design driver is to be able to support the weight of 1 or 2 adult sized people. Personally I would engineer for 2 people just in case it might ever happen, so think 425-450 lbs. IMO, 33" wide cabinets is too wide to support that kind of weight without sagging. Unless you beef up the thickness of the hardwood top. Since you want 3 drawers in the center space, if I were to design/build this project I would build 3 cabinets, 1 for each drawer using 3/4" plywood for the vertical panels. Or it could be one big cabinet but with a 3/4" load bearing verticle panel between the drawers. That cuts the span to 20" or do. 3 separate cabinets seems easier to me than figuring out how to support those load bearing panels with structure in the base. Dress the front up with a poplar face frame. It maybe a bit of overbuilding, but I always error on that side because underbuilding is a waste of time and money if you end up with a poor result.

[Thomas McCurnin]

This is the article to which I referred. It is a breakfast nook, but the same design and construction principles apply. This should give you some guidance.

https://www.finehomebuilding.com/pro...breakfast-nook

[Cameron Wood]

I have done them using commercial kitchen cabinet drawer units, using the same toe kick detail. The forced air heat can be directed out through a 2" register in the toe kick, just like is often done under a kitchen sink.

Trying to have the cabinet faces flush with the walls (baseboard running across) is not a good idea IMO since the walls may not line up, the corners may not be plumb, the floor may not be level, etc., and getting a clean line could be near impossible. The toe kick also makes standing up from seated easier.

If there will be a cushion, there wants to be a lip at the front to keep the cushion from sliding forward. The thickness of the cushion should be accounted for in height i.e. 18" seat height w/3" cushion = 15" deck height.

I disagree w/ above to not use drawers if there will be a table. Window seats with flip up lids are rarely used for storage IME, so even if access to the drawers is somewhat limited, it is still the most useful set up. I made breakfast nook this way in a previous house.

Definitely make a separate base. Fitting things to angled walls is hard enough without fitting to the floor as well. AFAS look, drawers are generally wider than tall, with 3 middle drawers the proportions of all the faces will be similar.

I think I would make one box with two verticals to make three drawers, and one face frame that would go wall to wall and be fitted and attached to the box in place. The corners would have triangle deck pieces fitted and the top supported by cleats on the wall and the doors hung from the face frame.

I would also plan on using small trim strips at the walls and probably at the top as well since trying for perfect fits could cause excess suffering.

[Michael J Evans]

Lee

Thanks for all the feedback. Your right the hardest cut is always the first one. I feel like I am watching a newbie at work. They are always so unconfident that they are paralyzed to try anything new.

In regards to the drawers this won't have a table or anything in front of it. More like the bay window sits off to the far right side of our living room and is currently just empty space. So the idea is we turn it into a semi functional storage / sitting area. There won't be any serious relaxing there as you can't really lean back or you'll be sitting against the blinds.

I've kind of done a sketch up mock up. I say kind of because I really really suck at it. But I have the general shape and layout done. I'm not sure if the little angled cabinets on the ends would look right with double doors, but I am going to go back in and see how that would look.

For the top I'm undecided. The base will be painted white. The top would look nice in a dark wood like walnut, but since this is eventually going to be covered with a cushion I am thinking about just using poplar or something else inexpensive and staining.

[Michael J Evans]

Lol thanks Brian, I honestly felt a certain type of way just admitting being scared off by the project.

I was going to build the boxes out of 1/2" plywood but have a 6 vertical walls (if that makes sense). So in essence each vertical wall would be 1" thick. I was thinking that should be plenty to support the weight especially since it will be distributed across with the hardwood top.

Also planning to do face frames, because I believe it will help me to hide any imperfections easier.

Which leads to another question - Pretty much every article you read says to use 1-1/2" face frame material. But that is with 3/4" plywood. Should I reduce to 1" face frames for 1/2" plywood or leave at 11/2"? My only hesitation with sticking with 11/2" is that the face frames will protrude too far into the cabinets.

Thanks again!

I remember that post. Don't feel bad. I've still got projects in the planning stages that I started 10 years ago...




Since this is to be a bench seat, your primary design driver is to be able to support the weight of 1 or 2 adult sized people. Personally I would engineer for 2 people just in case it might ever happen, so think 425-450 lbs. IMO, 33" wide cabinets is too wide to support that kind of weight without sagging. Unless you beef up the thickness of the hardwood top. Since you want 3 drawers in the center space, if I were to design/build this project I would build 3 cabinets, 1 for each drawer using 3/4" plywood for the vertical panels. Or it could be one big cabinet but with a 3/4" load bearing verticle panel between the drawers. That cuts the span to 20" or do. 3 separate cabinets seems easier to me than figuring out how to support those load bearing panels with structure in the base. Dress the front up with a poplar face frame. It maybe a bit of overbuilding, but I always error on that side because underbuilding is a waste of time and money if you end up with a poor result.

[Michael J Evans]

Excellent article Thomas. Thanks for finding that!

[Michael J Evans]

Hi Cameron

Thanks for the detailed reply. See below in red.

I have done them using commercial kitchen cabinet drawer units, using the same toe kick detail. The forced air heat can be directed out through a 2" register in the toe kick, just like is often done under a kitchen sink.

Trying to have the cabinet faces flush with the walls (baseboard running across) is not a good idea IMO since the walls may not line up, the corners may not be plumb, the floor may not be level, etc., and getting a clean line could be near impossible. The toe kick also makes standing up from seated easier. Do you feel like this holds true if I am not trying to get it flush with the very tip of the walls? What I mean is the bay window is approx 26" deep. I am only going straight across from angled window frame to angled window frame. Not straight across from the to straight walls next to the window. Also can you expand on how having a toe kick makes standing easier from a seated position?

If there will be a cushion, there wants to be a lip at the front to keep the cushion from sliding forward. The thickness of the cushion should be accounted for in height i.e. 18" seat height w/3" cushion = 15" deck height.

I disagree w/ above to not use drawers if there will be a table. Window seats with flip up lids are rarely used for storage IME, so even if access to the drawers is somewhat limited, it is still the most useful set up. I made breakfast nook this way in a previous house.

Definitely make a separate base. Fitting things to angled walls is hard enough without fitting to the floor as well. AFAS look, drawers are generally wider than tall, with 3 middle drawers the proportions of all the faces will be similar. Thanks for this. I've really been stressing over the doors being wider than tall.

I think I would make one box with two verticals to make three drawers, and one face frame that would go wall to wall and be fitted and attached to the box in place. One large face frame is the plan


The corners would have triangle deck pieces fitted and the top supported by cleats on the wall and the doors hung from the face frame. Can you post a link or send a picture of this? I'm not quite following what you mean. Been stressing on how to make the mitered cuts for the angled boxes.

I would also plan on using small trim strips at the walls and probably at the top as well since trying for perfect fits could cause excess suffering. I was thinknig about making the top extra wide and deep, to try and scribe the the wall. I've never scribed anything though, so I may be way off base.

[Bill Dufour]

A sleigh bed would allow one to lean back and watch the world go by.
Bill D

[Cameron Wood]

Michael,

- If there is window/corner trim that goes to the floor it's somewhat easier than a sheetrock or plaster corner.

- When standing from seated, you naturally try to get your feet underneath your COG, so the recessed toe kick helps that a bit. Try getting up from seated on a box or
such vs a chair.

- The base can be used a plenum for the forced air heat. Cut a register in the toe kick face, and caulk the part of the base where the air will flow to seal any gaps.

- Scribing the top is good- I'm suggesting being prepared to use trim if it doesn't come out perfect.

- Here's a sketch (not to scale). The idea is to not have angled boxes at all, just the base, face frame, and the top. These will be limited spaces and not very visible inside.

Cheers, Jay (Cameron)

IMG_4023.jpeg

[Rick Potter]

Perhaps getting some cheap OSB or particle board and cobble up a basic shell to see how you like it, then make changes for the real one as desired.

[Bill Dufour]

Cardboard from the appliance store. You will need to make full size patterns to see what fits anyway. Cardboard cuts fine on the tablesaw.
Bill D.