Kitchen Face Frame Cabinet Overlay and Reveal

[stevo wis]

Personally, I like Euro cabinets. Less work, cleaner look, consistent overlay. You can still have a variable reveal, up to at least 1/2", and also on the ends with a panel if you use the right hinges or cut back the side of the cabinet and mount the hinges to the panel. Also, there's no consideration for stiles on the ends vs. stiles in the middle of a run. If forced to use face frames, I agree with the comment about hating visible seams where two cabinets meet mid run.

John

I am forced to use face frames here because of some existing cabinets that have to stay. I also like inset doors better but have a ton of doors to do and I am not sure that it is worth the extra work for insets.
My real concern is the same question that I started with. Is it worth the complication of different size hinges and overlays to maintain the same reveal? I am going to avoid joining face frames but will probably have at least oneplace where they join.
I am also trying to come up with a nice door with maybe an arts and crafts look, glass etc.
One last question I have to resolve is which species to use. I am tired of oak, the kitchen floor has dark hickory. I was thinking birch, but that gets kind of wild grain. Maybe a white oak would look good?

I do appreciate all the comments.
Stevo

[John TenEyck]

I am forced to use face frames here because of some existing cabinets that have to stay. I also like inset doors better but have a ton of doors to do and I am not sure that it is worth the extra work for insets.
My real concern is the same question that I started with. Is it worth the complication of different size hinges and overlays to maintain the same reveal? I am going to avoid joining face frames but will probably have at least oneplace where they join.
I am also trying to come up with a nice door with maybe an arts and crafts look, glass etc.
One last question I have to resolve is which species to use. I am tired of oak, the kitchen floor has dark hickory. I was thinking birch, but that gets kind of wild grain. Maybe a white oak would look good?

I do appreciate all the comments.
Stevo

IMO, yes, it's worth using hinges with different overlays to maintain the same reveal. There are plenty of options available within the same series, at least for the Blum ones I've used. It takes more planning to determine which hinges are needed, but less planning and work to build the faceframes because all the stiles are the same.

If you are going with an A&C door then definitely consider white oak; it's the classic wood for that style. It's also been very popular over the past few years, with many folks using a very low sheen, right down to flat, finish. If you can get rift sawn white oak, you will have none of the classic chevron red oak look that probably is what turned you off from that dated look. Rift sawn has a very uniform linear grain, quiet and elegant IMO. Birch? Not for me. Rift sawn ash is nice, too, very much like white oak at much lower cost. Great to work with and takes stain very well.

Good choice not doing inset doors. They would drive you crazy fitting them.

John

[Jared Sankovich]

Good choice not doing inset doors. They would drive you crazy fitting them.

John

JMHO but I don't find it any more difficult. Square is square. If you build square frames, and square doors it's not any more difficult than an overlay door.

[John TenEyck]

JMHO but I don't find it any more difficult. Square is square. If you build square frames, and square doors it's not any more difficult than an overlay door.

You're a better craftsman than I if you can hang cabinets perfectly square, plumb, and in the same plane, and cut inset doors once and have uniform reveals all around and flush with the faceframe, and spend no more time than installing overlay doors. My hats off to you.

John

[Jared Sankovich]

You're a better craftsman than I if you can hang cabinets perfectly square, plumb, and in the same plane, and cut inset doors once and have uniform reveals all around and flush with the faceframe, and spend no more time than installing overlay doors. My hats off to you.

John

Yes, fit once and if square it's not even fitting it's just cutting the doors square and 0.120" undersized leaving .010" for cleanup so you end up with .070" reveals in the openings.

Are you saying you fit each door after hanging the cabinets. That would mean finishing separately as well.

[John TenEyck]

Yes, fit once and if square it's not even fitting it's just cutting the doors square and 0.120" undersized leaving .010" for cleanup so you end up with .070" reveals in the openings.

Are you saying you fit each door after hanging the cabinets. That would mean finishing separately as well.

I don't build faceframe kitchen cabinets anymore, actually, I don't build any kitchen cabinets anymore, so it's rather a moot point. When I did, I fit each door to the face frame, which often required a tweak on the tablesaw, jointer, or hand plane, so that I could finish them before hanging. I still do it that way building stand alone cabinets.

John

[Mark Gibney]

I am going to avoid joining face frames but will probably have at least one place where they join.
I'm inferring from this that you are clear coating the cabinets, not painting?

I am tired of oak
You float the idea of white oak - are you thinking rift sawn? I like the lines, and it seems to be very popular for a number of years now. Designers, even those who know only walnut and white oak, often ask for "white oak with lines".
Ash could be a nice counter point to the dark floors. If you buy 8/4 and 10/4 ash you can get nice straight grain wood for the faceframe, rails and stiles.

[Dave Sabo]

JMHO but I don't find it any more difficult. Square is square. If you build square frames, and square doors it's not any more difficult than an overlay door.

Guess you've never done beaded inset then. Or forgot about the jack miters associated with the frames.

You're a better craftsman than I if you can hang cabinets perfectly square, plumb, and in the same plane, and cut inset doors once and have uniform reveals all around and flush with the faceframe, and spend no more time than installing overlay doors. My hats off to you.

John

There's a reason inset cabinets cost more to produce/buy. All that time adds up - and costs money.

[Jared Sankovich]

Guess you've never done beaded inset then. Or forgot about the jack miters associated with the frames.

I actually posted they (in my opinion) were not more difficult. If you have to fit each door, then yes they are going to take more time. Hanging overlay or inset boxea doesn't make a difference since both should be plum, and in plane regardless of the door type (to be fair rarely build individual modular boxes unless they are designed as singles)
Sure beaded take more time, I didn't think anyone was really talking about beads here, but yes there is a lot more going on so for sure they take more time, just running the beads is a extra pass through the shaper. As for me forgetting about jack miters, I didn't but they are fast to cut, it's not a fair comparison Though since I built a notcher/hauncher to speed that up. So (for me) notching is relatively fast and as easy as hitting a foor pedal.

I posted the notcher on the forum a few years ago
https://youtu.be/KGlid5nTgzM

Op if you like inset cabinets, build inset cabinets.