What 10’ sliding saws should I consider?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks again to all for the wealth of information. Special thanks to Kurt for the details and advice.

I am all for going 3 phase with a converter, but it adds $2,000 or more for a converter or $10,000 to have the shop wired. I was very bummed to find out it cost that much when the main building has 3 phase run to it, but it is a long run to the shop, and wire, fittings, and labor add up.

Today we have a call with Felder to say yea or nay to the K500S. I have looked online at all the used saws mentioned above, and yes- the SCM one mentioned had issues, as did nearly all the others I have looked at so far. Some issues were minor, but they were red flags to me for buying used. I’m not against driving 250 miles or so to look at the right used saw. So far no used saw looked good enough to make that drive. The idea of a new saw with warranty and no hidden issues is worth a little extra $ to me. I am very surprised at how expensive the new and used saws are. I really thought my $12,500 budget was high. It is apparently entry level.

A couple of saws popped up recently that almost fit the bill, but were either too short of a slide, had something wrong, or were just too far away.

My business partner read a very bad review about one of the top brands listed in this thread and he is adamantly against that brand. I won’t say which brand. I don’t think one bad review warrants repeating here, but it was from a well-respected maker, and he had lots of problems.

One thing for sure- I need this saw. I bought a bunch of rough sawn lumber this weekend and I was really wishing I had a slider to straighten edges.

[Kevin Jenness]

Have you checked out this one? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...5-d14a790e552f May be too far from you or have problems but that model is a very solid design with no electronics to glitch out.

I understand the motivation to buy new and probably most new machines pan out, but I have certainly seen enough warranty/customer service issues on new European machines discussed here to be skeptical. At least discuss with your rep how they will deal with any problems that may arise so you are not surprised.

What is the lead time on a new Felder saw these days? When we ordered a Felder mortiser 10 years ago I was surprised how long it took to show up.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Have you checked out this one? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...5-d14a790e552f May be too far from you or have problems but that model is a very solid design with no electronics to glitch out.

I understand the motivation to buy new and probably most new machines pan out, but I have certainly seen enough warranty/customer service issues on new European machines discussed here to be skeptical. At least discuss with your rep how they will deal with any problems that may arise so you are not surprised.

What is the lead time on a new Felder saw these days? When we ordered a Felder mortiser 10 years ago I was surprised how long it took to show up.

1989 is a bit old. Is that the year it was made?

Felder has a 10 year parts/labor warranty. They also send a rep to set it up. Lead time is normally 3 to 6 months, but they have one in stock ready to ship- two weeks to door. I found an Altendorf 3phase used in a cabinet shop for $10,600 but it’s been hard used and no warranty, and I would have to break down, load, ship, unload, and setup. We are already a working shop, so that’s down time for me.



^^^ None of what I just said is meant to be unappreciative. I appreciate all leads. I’m just documenting reasons for my decisions, especially since this may help someone else down the road. The warranty is a huge deal for a working shop. I worked in a shop that had a very fancy slider that was always down, to the point that the guy got a used one for backup. The main reason it was down was the digital automated fence and blade height kept breaking. This was a well-known name brand. This is another reason I want to go with a new saw for a professional shop. Down time is costly.

[Kevin Jenness]

1989 is a bit old. Is that the year it was made?

Felder has a 10 year parts/labor warranty. They also send a rep to set it up. Lead time is normally 3 to 6 months, but they have one in stock ready to ship- two weeks to door. I found an Altendorf 3phase used in a cabinet shop for $10,600 but it’s been hard used and no warranty, and I would have to break down, load, ship, unload, and setup. We are already a working shop, so that’s down time for me.



^^^ None of what I just said is meant to be unappreciative. I appreciate all leads. I’m just documenting reasons for my decisions, especially since this may help someone else down the road. The warranty is a huge deal for a working shop. I worked in a shop that had a very fancy slider that was always down, to the point that the guy got a used one for backup. The main reason it was down was the digital automated fence and blade height kept breaking. This was a well-known name brand. This is another reason I want to go with a new saw for a professional shop. Down time is costly.

Yes, 1989 year of manufacture. It's old, but if not abused may well last another 34 years. Basically the end of the pre-digital era for Martin. Totally agree with your comments on the time investment on a used saw and the vulnerabilities of electronic controls. I think, without personal experience of that model saw, that the Felder will probably be a good investment and perform well for you. In stock is a real plus. Keep the ways lubed per mfr's specs, and consider adding aftermarket dros if the saw doesn't come with them.

How long is the K500S table?

[Jim Becker]

If the Felder is available immediately like that, it's a no-brainer situation for me for sure, especially with that "new saw smell" and warranty.

[John Pendery]

Sounds like you have made up your mind on the Felder, and sounds like a good decision for your needs. I think making the argument for and against specific saws and manufacturers is almost pointless on these forums as we all have different needs, wants, and biases. I’ve heard horror stories of every manufacture with or without warranty, so I try listen to all of those one off stories with an open mind.

Aside from the saw itself, it might be of benefit to consider certain items to include in your budget or a future purchase that increase productivity, safety and accuracy.

Aftermarket DRO’s from proscale or Lamb toolworks along with his parallel guides can be a game changer if the saw doesn’t come with these from the factory. I highly recommend the airtight clamps that Mac Campshure makes. They not only keep the work strongly secured to the slider, increasing accuracy and productivity, but can also increase safety significantly. I know you can use other means of clamping the work down, but man these are pretty slick, and so fast and easy to use that you will actually use them on every cut.

Good luck on the new saw purchase!
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[Patrick Kane]

For what it's worth--and ive expressed this opinion before, apologies for the potential redundancy--but i own a 2005 Felder KF700 and i have also previously owned 1970s Martin T17 and T75. I would rather operate the Felder over the Martin. In fact, i kinda made that decision when i sold the Martins and kept the Felder. Other factors played a part in that decision, but the older saws lacked design features of contemporary saws. I wont argue build quality-- Martin is amazingly impressive-- but unlike jointers and bandsaws, sliders have come a long way in the last 40+ years. Now, i am dying to get my hands on a 90s or newer Martin, because I think my opinion would flip the other direction. There is an early 2000s t72a on woodweb that piques my interest. I dont have the space or the inclination to move a 10' slider into my basement shop right now. Congrats on the new purchase.

[John Pendery]

Patrick I was looking at that Martin on woodweb the other day. If everything is working properly seems like a decent price for that saw. I have the same era T72A but mine is lacking the overhead guard/assembly. The hand wheel on the left side of the saw that adjusts the rip fence was a big upgrade from the older T72’s where you had to walk around to move the rip fence. I love the old T17’s too! Not nearly as efficient or versatile as the newer saws, but such cool solid, and smooth running saws.

[Kevin Jenness]

For what it's worth--and ive expressed this opinion before, apologies for the potential redundancy--but i own a 2005 Felder KF700 and i have also previously owned 1970s Martin T17 and T75. I would rather operate the Felder over the Martin. In fact, i kinda made that decision when i sold the Martins and kept the Felder. Other factors played a part in that decision, but the older saws lacked design features of contemporary saws. I wont argue build quality-- Martin is amazingly impressive-- but unlike jointers and bandsaws, sliders have come a long way in the last 40+ years. Now, i am dying to get my hands on a 90s or newer Martin, because I think my opinion would flip the other direction. There is an early 2000s t72a on woodweb that piques my interest. I dont have the space or the inclination to move a 10' slider into my basement shop right now. Congrats on the new purchase.

I'm curious what design features make you favor the Felder over the old Martins. I've used a Martin T75 (old cast iron), a 1984 T72 much like the one I linked to and a new T60C, as well as an SCMI Si12, a Griggio SC3000 and a Paoloni P260. Aside from the handwheel operated rip fence with digital readout on the T60 and scoring on the newer saws I honestly don't see that much difference in how the various saws operate, except that the Martins just have a solidity and overall quality level that the others lack. The motorized blade movement in my opinion is more of a liability than an improvement (yes I'm a dinosaur). I loved the hydraulic blade controls on the T72. The T75 rip fence lacked a fine adjuster and the magnified cursors of the T72, would have benefited from a longer table stroke and had a somewhat cumbersome blade tilt control but it was a great saw with a lot of character. Maybe Felder has something special I am not aware of.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thank you for all the feedback, which was very helpful. I did consider every option suggested. We officially decided on the Felder K500s and made the deposit to hold it while we transferred funds. The powermatic sold in 3 hours, so that money went to the saw. We are keeping the Woodtek 10/12” interchangeable arbor saw mainly so I can run my 5/8” bore dado stack and crown moulding cutter, and also for those smaller cuts that are easier to do on a cabinet saw. (Original plan was to sell both saws, but I won the argument to keep the smaller one.)

So/ in about two weeks I’ll have the new saw!!! I am glad I went with new, which is very rare for me- I am a fan of saving money on used, but for this machine I wanted something that I know is 100% with no issues. I have zero buyer’s remorse right now!

The saw comes with the scoring blade (an option on this saw) and larger slider, and a few other bells and whistles over stock. He knocked a little off list price. We didn’t need the scoring blade, but they had this saw in stock with that option.

For sure I will do a video review because there seems to be a lack of reviews on this saw.

[Patrick Kane]

It’s all in the outrigger and crosscut fence. Also, I will give a slight edge to the xroll table over the original Martin cast iron table. The biggest difference is the older t75 crosscut fence is an absolute POS. I had an early to mid model 75 and the fence was plywood with a paper thin aluminum extrusion mounted to it. The flag stops sucked too. I definitely remember seeing a t75 with the t71-t72 outrigger and crosscut fence. That combination would completely change my mind, I’m sure, but the original outrigger system was astonishingly bad, in my opinion. I am going back two years, but the design for mine was two steel tubes connected by a fragile wishbone of aluminum, and then I think you flexed the aluminum piece into flat by applying tension via a series of hand screws against the steel tubes. For as brilliant as the base saw design was for its time, and it was, I can’t believe the same engineers designed the crosscut fence and outrigger system. Think about how clever the central wheel is to bevel and change blade height. Or the fact that the table carriage can move forward and backwards as well as away from the blade, All the while maintaining parallel! Then you get into the thoughtfulness of the rip fence dipping out of the way of the table, the convenient oil lines, the easy blade speed belt changes, the built in arbor lock for changing the blade easily with one wrench. The machine drips in intentional thought and the crosscut fence is plywood.

I would buy another t17 in a heartbeat to use as a rip saw/dado saw. They look awesome. Weigh a ton. The fence is great, and if you get one of the early to middle ones, you get some old arn charm with an engraved brass scale.

[Dave Roock]

Check into : https://www.ironwoodmachinery.com/co...aw-singe-phase

[Kevin Jenness]

It’s all in the outrigger and crosscut fence. Also, I will give a slight edge to the xroll table over the original Martin cast iron table. The biggest difference is the older t75 crosscut fence is an absolute POS. I had an early to mid model 75 and the fence was plywood with a paper thin aluminum extrusion mounted to it. The flag stops sucked too. I definitely remember seeing a t75 with the t71-t72 outrigger and crosscut fence. That combination would completely change my mind, I’m sure, but the original outrigger system was astonishingly bad, in my opinion. I am going back two years, but the design for mine was two steel tubes connected by a fragile wishbone of aluminum, and then I think you flexed the aluminum piece into flat by applying tension via a series of hand screws against the steel tubes. For as brilliant as the base saw design was for its time, and it was, I can’t believe the same engineers designed the crosscut fence and outrigger system. Think about how clever the central wheel is to bevel and change blade height. Or the fact that the table carriage can move forward and backwards as well as away from the blade, All the while maintaining parallel! Then you get into the thoughtfulness of the rip fence dipping out of the way of the table, the convenient oil lines, the easy blade speed belt changes, the built in arbor lock for changing the blade easily with one wrench. The machine drips in intentional thought and the crosscut fence is plywood.

I would buy another t17 in a heartbeat to use as a rip saw/dado saw. They look awesome. Weigh a ton. The fence is great, and if you get one of the early to middle ones, you get some old arn charm with an engraved brass scale.

I see your point about the T75 crosscut arrangement. I have seen pics of the outrigger with two steel rods. My friend's saw had a different table which pivoted for angled cuts and the later two-point fence which I like. Martin seemed to change out details like that often over the years. The basic carriage design though seems to have stayed the same since they discontinued the cast iron saws. The more recent manual rip fence setting from the operator's side is a huge labor saver and I'm surprised other mfr's haven't copied it.

[Joe Calhoon]

My old T75 had the fence with the wood piece under. It was fine and did not mind the flip stop either. Way better than the Felder fence I bought for the T17. The stop never sets square half the time. My T75 had the miter crosscut table also. It had positive repeatable stops for the major angles.
With the old machines you can update a lot of the newer safety features like overhead guards and motor brakes.

[Jim Becker]

I don't think you'll regret having the scoring blade...even if you very rarely have the need, when there's a cut with something that has delicate veneer or something is prone to tearout, etc., I can be just the ticket. I rarely use mine, but like having it there for "just in case".