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Thread: Trouble gluing miter joints

  1. #1
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    Trouble gluing miter joints

    I am having problems gluing up my miter joints on picture frames. During the test fit using a band clamp, the miters are perfectly closed, and with pretty strong clamp pressure there is no frame deformation or twisting. For the glue up I use tite bond III and rub a thin layer of glue on each miter edge with my finger and this takes about 2 minutes to get them all 8 edges done. Then I add the band clamp and carefully pull the joints together, about another 1-2 minutes. In the end, there is a very slight gap in some of the joints, I assume due to glue film. The gap is uniform so the problem does not seem to be with miters that are 0.1 degrees off one way or the other. What is the preferred way to glue these joints? A different glue? Just coat one side of each joint? Glue 1 or 2 joint first and dry fit the others during clamping, then come back and glue them?

  2. #2
    I would use Tite bond 2, it cures faster than Tite bond 3 , and I use a sharp knife to shave of a bit of wood in the center of one piece
    in each corner since the cut pieces often have a ‘high spot’.

    After all corners are glued and dried ,I drill holes in the joints and push in a tight nail using a small nail-set.
    Last edited by Mel Fulks; 03-18-2023 at 5:28 PM.

  3. #3
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    Titebond III has the highest viscosity of the three Titebond "wood" glues and will therefor require a greater clamping pressure or reduced glue application to achieve a similar glue joint "gap". I use Titebond III for just about everything for ease of supply management. However, I clamp miters like so:
    Jan's Frames (1).jpg
    which allows a very focused clamping pressure to override the high viscosity glue and I routinely get pretty decent results.
    Frame with Inlay (19).jpg
    For boxes I use these type of clamps for the same reason:
    McLaren Box (16).jpg
    and again get pretty decent joint results.
    swap-2 (21).jpg
    If you want to use band clamps and a high viscosity glue you may consider changing to something like a Merle clamp. These allow a crushing pressure for a small band clamp. I would prefer to use an adhesive with a lower viscosity like Titebond II and / or a more focused clamping method. We all find our preferred way of doing things. Once you find yours you will be able to repeat your results with confidence.
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  4. #4
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    You are essentially gluing end grain, so you want a good amount of glue. I've made dozens of picture frames ranging in size out of various woods. I use Tite Bond II. I also use a picture frame clamp similar to this, except mine are commercially produced and made of aluminum.
    Screenshot_2021-06-08_210835.jpeg
    Lee Schierer
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  5. #5
    Glenn, you sure got some great grain match there , or is that “contact paper” ?

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    A bit of a tangent, Glenn, but I just couldn't believe TB III has the highest viscosity of the three yellow Titebonds, but it does per TB's data. That's sure not the way they behave for me though. The behave exactly the opposite. TB III flows very easily while TB Original is much slower to pour, doesn't run as easily, etc. I wonder how TB measures the viscosity? Different methods give different results.

    John

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    III is also brown which I like for dark wood. For your lovely Maple maybe try Extend, I, or II.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maurice Mcmurry View Post
    III is also brown which I like for dark wood. For your lovely Maple maybe try Extend, I, or II.
    They make a "dark" version of the Type II product...but I have not found it locally to-date.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Glenn, you sure got some great grain match there , or is that “contact paper” ?
    I will take that as a serious compliment . It is solid walnut outer frame with a 1/2" wide birdseye inlay about 1/8" thick and the inner frame is solid birdseye maple about 3/8" thick. Picture frames can be very basic things and be very attractive as such. Many times you do NOT want the frame to distract from the art. I think that for snapshots it is fun to push the picture frame format a bit and add a bit of razz-ma-tazz.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    A bit of a tangent, Glenn, but I just couldn't believe TB III has the highest viscosity of the three yellow Titebonds, but it does per TB's data. That's sure not the way they behave for me though. The behave exactly the opposite. TB III flows very easily while TB Original is much slower to pour, doesn't run as easily, etc. I wonder how TB measures the viscosity? Different methods give different results.

    John
    I agree. In use TB-III seems to be just about the right balance for me. I guess it would have been smart for me to ask what his material was. Any of us who have had a starved joint can relate to how important this might become. Whether due to not enough glue or not pre-wetting (or sizing) a surface for glue up on an absorptive material like oak, a crushing clamp pressure can starve the joint. I tend to wet the end grain of both surfaces with glue, let it soak in for a minute or so, then apply a "normal" film of glue to one side, and clamp as shown.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


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  11. #11
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    Glen,
    Nice miters, really nice baby!

    I didn't know about the viscosity issue. Might have to try TBII. Does anyone use cyanoacrylate with longer open time?

    Any recommendation on whether to put glue on both faces of each miter or just one?

    Thanks, Jim

  12. #12
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    Tb II I use this to glue up hundres of joints in segmented bowl rings. I also believe most segment boul turners use TBII.
    as far as the joints go you might look into a 45 degree sled for your table saw.
    Here are some YouTube links that can give you some methods used by other folks.
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...t+miter+joints
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KEw83c8T98
    Again for bowl segments there is a sled called a wedgie sled example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KEw83c8T98
    This is an example of a wide 45 cut made on a DIY wedgie sled.
    The other picture FYI is a 12 segment 24 piece segment ring with spacer pieces again cut on a wedgie sled and built with TBII. The ring is a left over from a bowl job that I turned into a moisture test piece but you get the idea on the angle cut quality all due to the DIY sled.
    calabrese55
    IMG_20221129_154516-2.jpgsegment ring expansion test.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim gossage View Post
    I am having problems gluing up my miter joints on picture frames. During the test fit using a band clamp, the miters are perfectly closed, and with pretty strong clamp pressure there is no frame deformation or twisting. For the glue up I use tite bond III and rub a thin layer of glue on each miter edge with my finger and this takes about 2 minutes to get them all 8 edges done. Then I add the band clamp and carefully pull the joints together, about another 1-2 minutes. In the end, there is a very slight gap in some of the joints, I assume due to glue film. The gap is uniform so the problem does not seem to be with miters that are 0.1 degrees off one way or the other. What is the preferred way to glue these joints? A different glue? Just coat one side of each joint? Glue 1 or 2 joint first and dry fit the others during clamping, then come back and glue them?
    Jim, I suspect that the problem lies with your clamping method (the band clamp), and that it places pressure at the outside of each joint, and not across the joint, itself. Lee's clamp is a better design.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Schierer View Post
    You are essentially gluing end grain, so you want a good amount of glue. I've made dozens of picture frames ranging in size out of various woods. I use Tite Bond II. I also use a picture frame clamp similar to this, except mine are commercially produced and made of aluminum.
    Screenshot_2021-06-08_210835.jpeg
    Lee:

    Interesting. I've always used band clamps, but I agree this design looks better.

    Which commercially produced clamp are you using? Glenn looks like he is using one too.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim gossage View Post

    . . . Does anyone use cyanoacrylate with longer open time?

    Any recommendation on whether to put glue on both faces of each miter or just one?
    Jim I wouldn't use CA glue for this. CA is strong in tension, but has no shear strength. So a sharp rap, like falling on a corner, can more easily break the thin plastic layer that CA forms.

    I use whichever bottle of TB I have open. I put on both faces - and always use reinforcement, even just the V nails for small frames. And I use the same 4- corner clamp thing that Lee shows. Maybe from Lee Valley, but Ive seen similar from the usual suspects.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 03-19-2023 at 9:44 AM. Reason: fixed quote tagging
    < insert spurious quote here >

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