Trouble cutting a straight (plumb) line

[Ray Bahr]

Been practicing my handsaw use for some dovetail work, and I can't for the life of me get a plumb straight cut. I am using a Japanese pull saw, watched a ton of videos, but my saw always veers to the right of the line for the rear of the work. Been changing the height of the work, my body placement, and my grip, and the rear cut trends to the right of the line - the front is OK.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Ray

[Jim Koepke]

I like the Japanese pull saws but they tend to have the same problem in my work.

One thing I did learn is to use both hands and pull toward my center.

I finally gave up trying to cut dovetails with them and use western saws for joinery.

They still get used for some light cutting.

jtk

[Ray Bahr]

Thanks Jim,

I had the most success with a 2 handed grip. I would still like to understand why this is happening, and if there are things I can do differently.

RAY

[Rafael Herrera]

Have you tried correcting the issue by adjusting the setting of the teeth? For example, stoning the right side of the saw. That's what I would do with a western saw.

[Ray Bahr]

Have you tried correcting the issue by adjusting the setting of the teeth? For example, stoning the right side of the saw. That's what I would do with a western saw.

Thanks, but this saw has no set

Ray.

[Derek Cohen]

Ray, these saws have a thin blade and, especially if there is minimal set, will be vulnerable to following the grain. It is important to take light strokes and not force the cut.

The second strategy is to always cut to two intersecting lines at the same time - this may be the vertical down and the top across. That will help in ensuring the cut is straight.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Luke Dupont]

All saws have some amount of set. It may just be really fine.

I find that I can get very accurate cuts with a Ryoba. I probably have more confidence with Japanese saws than western saws at this point. The key is to use the length of the handle. Hold it with one hand near the very end, not the "neck" and a gentle grip. The more tense you are, or the more you try to force the cut, the more you will veer off course. I almost never use two hands -- one cannot get really accurate cuts that way, I believe.

If the set is messed up, even slightly -- the teeth may have rubbed against something hard on one side only -- then it will veer off to one side.

It's especially hard to fix the set on Ryoba because the teeth on both sides must match, else you get binding in deep cuts.

[Tony Shea]

I agree that Japanese saws can be a little difficult to cut straight lines. I don't think you should be using a Japanese saw that has NO set for joinery purposes. If the saw has NO set it sounds like its a flush cut saw and not a general purpose saw. I do prefer to use western style saws for most joinery but do break out my Japanese saws for finer work.

For cutting dovetails or any joinery where your ripping with a Japanese saw I highly recommend putting the work piece flat on the bench and working on your knees. Basically you are cutting such that you're looking at the back side of the work piece and the saw is getting close to vertical (obviously not perfectly vertical until the end of the cut). This position forces the saw to follow the inside of the line, where you're not looking, with the stiffer part of the saw. As Derek mentioned the thin blade of the saw will want to follow the grain of the wood but cutting in this position will give you a much better chance at guiding the saw. I honestly think this is the way Japanese saws are designed to be used. Us westerners have started using the technique that is more designed around western style saws where the work piece is placed in a vice. When cutting on the pull stroke, placing the work piece in the vice is not conducive to cutting accurately. If you watch some videos of true Japanese hand tool woodworking you will notice them ripping with the work piece flat or on the floor leaned up on a short saw horse.

[James Pallas]

Seeing this thread brought it all back to me. Same issue for me years ago. Japanese saws are surprisingly sensitive. One small pressure one way or the other and off you go. I was trying to correct pulling towards myself chasing the line on the front. Ever so slightly warping the blade and off to the right the rear would go. The first few strokes at the start tell the tale. If you start correcting in the cut ??. Dereks following two lines definitely helps. A delicate touch at the start for sure and no forcing. I did figure it out and still use Japanese saws sometimes. Found I prefer western saws for most work.
Jim

[Ray Bahr]

Hi Derek & everyone else.

I seem to not have any problem following 2 lines, it is following 3 lines where things go sideways - literally!

As I cut, I seem to be able to follow the top and front line, but when done, it is the rear cut that wanders. I do have a problem with my predominant wrist - multiple surgeries and it is not even close to being good as new. I am pretty sure that contributes. Been cutting up my scrap pile practicing...

I will try using the full length of the handle, although I have that as well as choking up on it as well...

Thanks

Ray

[Luke Dupont]

Dereks following two lines definitely helps.
Jim

I missed this point.
If you're working with pencil or ink lines, splitting two lines is always way, way easier -- especially when ripping.
Even to this day I can't cut cleanly right next to a pencil line, but I can cut very straight between two pencil lines.
Of course, a knife wall and chiseled step is perhaps the easiest of all when cross cutting.

[Ben Ellenberger]

How thick is the stock you are cutting, and are you using one of the very fine-tooth back saws? I like Japanese saws for stuff that is less than 1/2” thick, but I struggle with them in thicker stock. I much prefer western saws for that.

I’ll echo what other people have said, any tiny bit of force or trying to direct a Japanese saw makes it wander. It takes a very light touch to get them to cut straight (for me at least).

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Derek & everyone else.

I seem to not have any problem following 2 lines, it is following 3 lines where things go sideways - literally!

As I cut, I seem to be able to follow the top and front line, but when done, it is the rear cut that wanders. I do have a problem with my predominant wrist - multiple surgeries and it is not even close to being good as new. I am pretty sure that contributes. Been cutting up my scrap pile practicing...

I will try using the full length of the handle, although I have that as well as choking up on it as well...

Thanks

Ray

Hi Ray

It appears that you need to saw the top and front side of the board, the turn it around and repeat.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Charles Guest]

Thin blade, easy to twist in the cut. Quit cutting to a line out of sight for anything other than very short distances. Cut down the front, flip it, then cut down the back. Alternatively, use a Western saw, but not cutting to a line that's out of sight is still your best course of action regardless of the style saw you use.

[steven c newman]

Old timers taught a way...you held a square alongside the saw...to keep the saw cut vertical ( plumb) After a while and a bit of practice, you'd get to the point of no longer needing the square sitting there.

Of course, this was with using the "old fashioned" Western style saws....