Overhead Guard for Table saw

[Tom Trees]

Been looking at more table and panel saws, but not found the ratcheting guard I seen yet... but I did find another,
the one on the Robland panelsaw, and to me looks very stout, has a lever, and appears to be stout enough to keep something held down just about enough
to keep the work from climbing, should some occurrence like so happen.

Someone on the UKworkshop mentioned the rigid designs of old Wadkin's seemed a better idea, since your hand couldn't get under a wheel,
but to me, I'm wishing to treat the guard as the blade, hence my liking of the SUVA guard.

A fellow islander gives a tour of the Robland Z320 panel saw (I've timestamped the link to the overhead guard "tire kickin")
https://youtu.be/jiuFDUyPe_s?t=359

I'd like to hear what Joe's impressions are of this contender.

Lookin' round at some other machines, but they all appear to be very similar, bar springs, vs gas struts, which along with the wheels, seem to be taking over,
though I'm not done searching yet, and I suspect I need to be looking not just at models, but periods aswell.
For instance Cosmas Bauer's Panhans guard which has some features worth looking at, i.e straight forward construction.

Will try to find the video mentioned, in attempt to get a better understanding of what's preferable, or indeed which might be more preferable on a 12" machine.
Tom

[Joe Calhoon]

Tom,
here are some close up pictures of the guard. The spring tension is adjustable. As I said these will not prevent kick back. I don’t think they would prevent the workpiece riding up unless you kept pressure on the handle. That would be a very bad idea while ripping. Best way to prevent kick back is riving knife, slight lead out on fence and fence pulled back to center or end of blade. See last picture.

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[Michael Drew]

If I ever decide to implement one, that's actually the one I will likely buy. It's the right size and the right color (white) to fit into my shop.

I have the Grizzly. I think you'll be disappointed with it. Especially if you do not secure the base. I find myself fighting with mine more than using it. If only cutting sheet goods, then it works fine.

[Jim Becker]

I have the Grizzly. I think you'll be disappointed with it. Especially if you do not secure the base. I find myself fighting with mine more than using it. If only cutting sheet goods, then it works fine.

Good to know, Michael. I doubt I'll add one anyway, but it was a thought. I do so many ad hoc things that an overarm guard would be in the way "just because". That was one reason I never had one at the old shop, either. For the cabinet saw I had prior to a slider (early 2000s) I had the Excalibur which was easy to swing out of the way, however.

[Tom Trees]

Tom,
here are some close up pictures of the guard. The spring tension is adjustable. As I said these will not prevent kick back. I don’t think they would prevent the workpiece riding up unless you kept pressure on the handle. That would be a very bad idea while ripping. Best way to prevent kick back is riving knife, slight lead out on fence and fence pulled back to center or end of blade. See last picture.

Thanks for posting pictures Joe, that's very kind, I surely will have my work cut out for me if I ever get my stuff together and join this place.
I was thinking you could get a lot of torque with that lever, hence my guess that it was either a detent sorta system, if even nearly as rudimentary
as what you might see on a cement mixer,
or what I was thinking more likely, some sorta cam system, but the answer I'm getting is neither.

Kinda sounds like you can adjust your guard to be as stiff as Tom's Robland design, which to me, looks like it might stop something fairly hefty catapulting
though not spears or fillets...
There's a story of someone loosing their thumb on the UKforum, because of a spear shot out from the machine, hence my "line of fire" comment, alongside
some hinting of the use of the paddle switch, which can be used on either side of the danger.

Judging from your postings, I'm guessing that you aren't to fussed about the potential benefits of having a guard which won't raise on its own (within reason)
and I can't say I've heard of a rigid guard "saving the day" either,
Not to mention, seemingly all? of the new designs are more true to the phrase "floating".

Seems that could be a red herring, not sure yet, I think it would be nice to have a choice on either setting,
but getting the impression, you might reckon Tom's Robland looks a real fight compared to the way you have your SUVA guard
setup?

What question I haven't got an answer to yet... What makes the roller blade that much better than the shoe...
as to my mind, yanking on the guard is asking for a fight also, compared to moving the whole guard further up the linkages.

Where's the benefit there I ask?

Is it simply the fact that you can "bottom out" the guard on the timber without stooping.
If so, then why wouldn't ya just weld up some brackets for some wheels...
or does the system not allow for that,
when two wheels, a welding rod or two, and whatever fixings would be suited are placed on top of the guard.

I could go on about ergonomics like the preference between levers on the SUVA, compared to the seemingly optional handed Robland,
(which I might add is an old design, and they too have gone with the usual design)

Finally, I hear ya regarding safe use of the machine, as per Roy Sutton.
It's proving to be an interesting challenge to design a sliding fence for my machine, as it's too damp in my shed to have plywood abutments, though I suppose I could
make some from the hardwoods I have, I'd rather not, especially since I've got some nice materials.
Though that's for another day.

Cheers
Tom

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[Joe Calhoon]

Tom, my 24 year old full format slider has a fairly stiff overhead guard that is motorized. Still not intended to be any kind of anti kickback device. Martin only did this for a few years. I think the kind that move up and down effortlessly are more “convenient”. Key thing with any of these is to be able to move out of the way quickly when doing operations like haunching.
I do use this one close on top of the material when working thin material to keep it from buckling up. The Suva will do the same thing minus the wheel.

The splitter with attached overhead like stubby fingers Roy is using are totally a pain. Any time you need a non through cut the entire mechanism has to be removed.
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[Tom Trees]

Thanks Joe, apologies for not responding sooner in regards to your insightful commentary.
I just wanted to review your thoughts again, as I'll bet your sorry you even mentioned you had the SUVA floating crown guard now, lol!.

I'll not lie, and say I'm clear about your preferences, as I simply cannot understand why you'd have gone with the Harvey guard on your Martin tablesaw...
Nice colour it is too, I might add.

I could speculate on cost or effort involved... but I'm getting hints of reasoning in regards to performance, in your reply to my specific queries.

It reads to me that you don't value the lever being useful at all, and I'm guessing you might have cracked your head against it... more than once,
as I haven't read of any hints of nice things to say about it.
I'd imagine you'd have mentioned if it were some shoulder injury or whatever influencing matters.

You mention doing haunches, and seems like the SUVA might be reluctant to be moved out of the way,
Whether that be up or across, I am none the wiser?

Maybe I'm just honing in too much on the guard and linkages above, and not looking at the full picture.

Is it the swinging arm design vs telescopic arm what I'm missing?
i.e Could this be the case of the job looks so neat that t'would be a shame to change things as they are?.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree again, and it's the blade cover in which the issues lie, guessing not, seeing as I'm wishing to build something of the same ilk.

One last hurdle of confusion, which reverts back to that big ol'lever.
Working thin material and it buckling, which I would have worded exactly as such, had I thought.
This is more the kinda thing I was mentioning, a scenario what could lead to a kickback, even with a close fitting riving knife,
and is pretty much the basis of my subconscious telling me the lever is a better design.
(so we will have to agree to disagree with each other there regarding the intentions of the guard on your other machine)

I don't get the impression the Harvey guard would be very nice to use, if indeed it is possible to stiffen up some grub screws on the sliding linear rail, to effectively perform under that circumstance reliably.

Thanks again for your thoughts.
Tom

[Joe Calhoon]

Tom, the lever is not a problem at all. The Suva is a little stiff and the lever makes it easy to move up and down. I think all these guards would prevent buckling to a certain degree but they all are designed to go up and down easily. I think the Suva raises 8” or so. Beyond that I have to release a lever and slide it back into the tube. Or remove it totally. It’s important for these to be able to move out of the way when not needed.
some operations you just need to see what happening at the blade. Like I said before my main motive here was dust collection.
I think the Harvey is a nice setup because it mounts like a power feeder and can be swung out of the way when not needed. I talking the $800 one. My T17 has a large cast iron table and would have been easy to mount. Only drawback is it’s designed for 10 and 12” blades.
my Suva ended up costing more than twice that with the custom made support arm. I played with the Harvey at the Vegas show and it is substantial for the price.

[Kevin Jenness]

My thinking aligns with Joe's. An overhead guard needs to keep your hands away from the blade, collect dust and be easily moveable. I don't want a guard that has to be pushed up from the table by the stock and I don't expect it to suppress kickback. A wheel at the toe that would press panels down on the scoring saw might be nice but would require a very rigid and easily set mounting. I have used guards that locked at a set height and spring loaded ones that can be pushed up easily and am fine with both. I would not want a guard mounted on the riving knife that has to be unbolted for narrow and partial thickness cuts, or a floor-mounted unit that was not bolted to the floor.

The stock guard on my Paoloni is spring-loaded and easily raised up to 10" or so, and can be slid aside about 20" by loosening a Kipp lever - simple and effective, though the dust collection is not 100%. I have also used the old Excalibur swing-away guard and a couple of shop-built ceiling-mounted guards that slid up and down on a post that was hinged at the top. They all worked well for me.

I think a hands-free kill switch is a must. My current saw has one on the side panel that can be hit with the thigh, and I made kick-paddles hinged above the starter control box for a Unisaw and a Powermatic 66.

Aside from dust collection, I think an overhead guard is not nearly as important a feature as a proper riving knife and paying attention.

[Tom Trees]

Thanks again Joe, and also to Kevin.
I was getting the impression that the performance of the SUVA guard, or indeed similar designs with levers were less desirable,
(wheels or no wheels) which it seems not.
I think your last sentence says it all, I didn't grasp that your thoughts were general statements about it, and thought there were issues with it's performance compared,
money/time no object kinda thing.

Still getting "hints" or impressions that the swing away arm system is handier than the telescopic approach,
but I have plans for an overhead router on the movable post I've drawn, so can still get full capacity of the saw, with the benefit of being more compact,
and I am happy to plough ahead with that tradeoff, if indeed that might have been suggested.

Cheers again
Tom

[Terry Wawro]

How is your extension arm different? My extension arm is very stiff partly because I filled the 1 1/2" PVC pipe with solid hardwood so the pipe itself doesn't deflect and I don't think the dust shroud could come in contact with the blade. I did add spacers to increase the width of the shroud to about 1 1/2" wide outside as I was concerned about that. The anchor end of the extension arm is secured by two 3/8" threaded rods and when they are snugged down the guard can only be deflected about 1/8" with considerable force. When you say different design do you mean the shroud design or extension arm design? I don't think there is a design out there that doesn't get in the way when cutting thin strips, at least not one I've seen.

Yes, my extension arm is just wood, no metal or pipe installed. The "flex" come not from the extension arm but from the up-right that it's connected too.