Electrical Issue In The Shop

[John K Jordan]

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Always shut the electrical circuit down at the panel when troubleshooting this.

Maybe shut down the whole panel or test every wire for power. Assume nothing.

I turned off the breaker for a basement lighting circuit at my sister’s house to add a light fixture then tested and found the bottom switch was still hot although the lights were out! Someone had wired a 3 switch circuit for that circuit, one switch at the basement door, one at at the top, and one at the bottom of the stairs. But for some reason connected the switch on one end to one breaker and another to a different breaker!! I didn’t even try to diagram and figure out how that had been working but ripped out the second feed and rewired the switch circuit.

Again, assume nothing.

[Alex Zeller]

If you have an infrared thermometer that can be very helpful. You most likely have to remove covers to see the electrical connections but any loose one will be hotter than everything else around it.

[Bill George]

What Jim said about using a portable radio is a valid method we used as Hams to find the source of static on the amateur radio bands, or in this case a loose connection. Portable battery powered radio on AM tuned to a clear frequency will find the source. Plus I always touch circuit breakers and other suspected areas for heat sometimes indicating a loose connection, and your touching the insulated areas!!!

[Joe Wood]

well there it is, Jim K and Bill G, use a transistor radio as that gizmo I was asking about! But then, that circuit would have to be flickering at the time, to find it?

[Bill George]

well there it is, Jim K and Bill G, use a transistor radio as that gizmo I was asking about! But then, that circuit would have to be flickering at the time, to find it?

Well the old Ham that taught me that trick also carried a sledge hammer and we would go around the block and whack each electric pole with that sledge and see if the noise / static got louder or not. With electrical troubleshooting you learn to just not focus on one thing but be open minded.

[Lee Schierer]

Maybe shut down the whole panel or test every wire for power. Assume nothing.

I turned off the breaker for a basement lighting circuit at my sister’s house to add a light fixture then tested and found the bottom switch was still hot although the lights were out! Someone had wired a 3 switch circuit for that circuit, one switch at the basement door, one at at the top, and one at the bottom of the stairs. But for some reason connected the switch on one end to one breaker and another to a different breaker!! I didn’t even try to diagram and figure out how that had been working but ripped out the second feed and rewired the switch circuit.

Again, assume nothing.

Must be the same electrician that wired my daughters house. She had two multiple light circuits tied to two circuit breakers, so no matter which one you turned off it was still powered until the second one was also turned off. They had two different circuits coming into and leaving from one junction box and all the blacks were tied together as were the neutrals and grounds. It has now been corrected.

[Jim Koepke]

well there it is, Jim K and Bill G, use a transistor radio as that gizmo I was asking about! But then, that circuit would have to be flickering at the time, to find it?

That depends on the cause of the problem.

After having given a bit more thought to this and what could be causing it a few things came to mind.

If it is a loose connection at a screw or wire nut it would most likely only affect outlets/sockets downstream from the offending connection.

A simple way of looking at breakers is the current passing through them makes heat in the breaker. If too much current passes through the heat causes the metal to expand and "pop" the breaker to an open position. Over time metal fatigue could cause the metal to expand enough to open the circuit but not enough to fully open it. This could be a quick cycling causing the initial flickering until it heats up enough to start to open then close again after a few minutes.

An intermittent short would likely cause the breaker to open.

My first suspect in this case would be a faulty breaker. It could also be a loose connection at either side of the breaker.

This is based on your first post not saying only some of the lights flicker. Though you also didn't mention what kind of lamps or how many are on the circuit. In some cases mixed LED and fluorescent can have problems.

Worst case scenario is if there is aluminum wiring mixed with copper wiring.

This is where what John K Jordan said is a very important consideration if you want to work safe:

Maybe shut down the whole panel or test every wire for power. Assume nothing.

When working on electrical, my first tool put to use is my meter to make certain the power is off.

In his case someone didn't want to run their wiring properly and instead chose a method that worked but could be very dangerous.

One reason for my reluctance to trouble shoot electrical problems on line is there are so many variables along with not knowing what kind of monster an amateur electrician might have created in the past.

jtk

[Joe Wood]

These two lights are plugged into outlets, with common type light bulbs they have these days. There aren't any fluorescent lights on this circuit. I also have a computer plugged into one outlet. When the lights start to flicker shuts the computer shuts down.

Now the lights don't just flicker, they go off for a few minutes, then they come back on again.

don't worry guys I'll not be doing any of this work, I learned my lesson last year!

[Lee Schierer]

These two lights are plugged into outlets, with common type light bulbs they have these days. There aren't any fluorescent lights on this circuit. I also have a computer plugged into one outlet. When the lights start to flicker shuts the computer shuts down.

Now the lights don't just flicker, they go off for a few minutes, then they come back on again.

don't worry guys I'll not be doing any of this work, I learned my lesson last year!

Check the prongs on the plug for arching marks. If there are any clean them off and see if the problem persists. If it does repeat after cleaning, replace the outlet.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Unless you find obvious loose connections, I would be inclined to simply replace the breaker. Shut down the whole panel, unplug the breaker (most just snap in place, some are screwed in place), loosen the terminal screws holding the the hot wire (black or red), replace the breaker, tighten the hot wire, and snap it back into place. There usually is no neutral/white wire to the breaker, as the metal prong on the back snaps on to the neutral bus bar. Its a five minute operation. Look on the bus bar in back for signs of obvious arcing. Hopefully the box is not a Zinco type box, in which case, I'd recommend a new service panel.

I know of no easy way to test a breaker. Some obvious ways to test it include snapping the breaker back and forth and see if there is a spongey feeling, meaning it is not re-setting properly, or if it is hot. But otherwise, I've had what seem to be perfectly good breakers go bad.

[Ron Selzer]

Based on the pictures you have posted CALL THE ELECTRICAN NOW NOT LATER

[Bill George]

Based on the pictures you have posted CALL THE ELECTRICAN NOW NOT LATER

Ditto, been in electrician trade since 1962 never saw anyone burnt like that, ever. I had one close call but l am a quick learner.

[Joe Wood]

Yeah I had an elect over yesterday and he's coming back today,

yeah I learned my lesson too! The hard way :-)