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Thread: Can the dead vote? Non-political

  1. #76
    My wife and I set up a revocable trust. The trust owns the house, all of our bank accounts including savings, and is an added insured on our cars. Both of us are listed as trustees with added contingent trustees should both of us croak at the same time. We also have wills, durable powers of attorney, medical proxies, and some other stuff which I forget. Our elder lawyer insists on meeting with us once per year to review and update everything. We figure we have things pretty well covered so we will have access to anything and everything we might need.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Blue View Post
    Where you reside obviously makes a huge difference. When my father passed there was nothing that needed to be done for his estate. It passed to my brother and I and nothing else was required. No court filing required for a will or anything. Estate planning here simply means have the paperwork in order so as to not need any actions afterwards.
    Kinda what I was saying, but as always state laws vary in the US, so it's always best to insure that the "correct" ducks are in a row via an attorney that does family law for your state. (assuming US resident...but the same advice would apply in other countries for sure)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #78
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    We also set up a revocable trust a while back along with all the POAs (durable and medical), etc. Anything with a title or other sort of paperwork is owned by the trust (house, cars, RV, bank accounts, land, etc). The trust is the beneficiary of brokerage accounts, life insurance, etc. The only thing that does not get listed in trust are retirement accounts (401K, IRA, etc). I don't recall the exact reason but our lawyer instructed us not to do so. As Dave indicated, there are contingency upon contingency for who becomes trustee in the event both of us die or become incapacitated as well as who might get what from whatever remains in the estate at that point in time. Changing the will aspect for estate distribution is basically as easy as adding a sheet of paper to the trust documents.

  4. #79
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    I recall that ballots are secret for two main reasons.

    1. A secret ballot prevents voters from getting paid to vote a certain way since there is no way to verify how they voted.

    2. Prevents voter intimidation, blackmail, and retribution.

    Our election process is overwhelmingly secure because it’s so decentralized. And thanks to all of the great people I’ve met helping out on voting day making it possible.

  5. #80
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    I believe if a candidate dies right before the election he/she can still be elected into office. Then they have to decide what to do. Often the wife is appointed until there is a special election if they die in office.
    Bill D
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 03-17-2023 at 5:23 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Bruette View Post
    I think that should read Mr. Bruette or Mrs. Bruette. Your milage may vary
    Bill D
    As long as it's not Mr. Bruette and Mrs. Brown we'll be OK.[/QUOTE]
    I bet Mrs. Brown has a lovely daughter.
    BilL D.

  7. #82
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    Interesting that someone can die before election day and still be elected but someone who legally votes early and dies before election day doesn't have their vote counted. Seems to me any legally cast vote should count regardless of whether the voter subsequently dies before polls close. Just my 2 cents worth.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Garson View Post
    Interesting that someone can die before election day and still be elected but someone who legally votes early and dies before election day doesn't have their vote counted. Seems to me any legally cast vote should count regardless of whether the voter subsequently dies before polls close. Just my 2 cents worth.
    There are a few technicalities to consider.

    1) The laws on this are different from state to state.

    2) If someone casts a ballot on election day and then meets their demise before the polls close it may be impossible to keep their vote from counting.

    3) A candidate dying before election day and being elected to office is another anomaly that comes under state law. Ballots have to be printed well before election day.

    4) A quote from 74 posts previous to this one:

    When an eligible voter casts an absentee (or mail) ballot, then dies before the election, does the ballot still count?
    Some states are silent on this issue. Others address it directly in statute, either by prohibiting or permitting the counting of ballots from voters who die before Election Day.

    Eight states—Arkansas, Florida, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, North Dakota, Tennessee and Virginia—have statutes that explicitly permit counting absentee ballots cast by voters who die before Election Day; one state—Connecticut—only counts these ballots if the deceased voter is a member of the armed services.
    Ten states—Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, South Dakota and Wisconsin— have statutes that explicitly prohibit counting absentee ballots cast by voters who die before Election Day. Missouri states that such ballots be rejected only if sufficient evidence is shown to an election authority that the voter has died before the opening of the polls on Election Day, and the deceased voter’s ballot is still sealed in the ballot envelope.
    At least two states—Kentucky and Mississippi—also prohibit counting deceased voters’ ballots, but through attorneys general opinions, rather than statute.
    In the remaining 29 states, NCSL has not found citations indicating whether absentee/mail ballots from voters who die before Election Day are to be counted.
    As a practical matter, it is hard to retrieve ballots from people who have died between casting their votes and Election Day. Once the absentee ballot has been verified and removed from the envelope for counting, the ballot cannot be retraced to the voter.

    Catching a ballot, then, is only possible when it is still in its return envelope, and only in cases where election officials have received notice of the death.
    In Washington state the return envelope has signitures, date and a barcode. Once the ballot and the privacy envelope are seperated from the cover (return) envelope, there is no way of identifying whose ballot is whose. In Washington and I believe Oregon (possibly other states) all ballots are mailed out and either mailed back or dropped off in drop boxes.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    There are a few technicalities to consider.

    1) The laws on this are different from state to state.

    2) If someone casts a ballot on election day and then meets their demise before the polls close it may be impossible to keep their vote from counting.

    3) A candidate dying before election day and being elected to office is another anomaly that comes under state law. Ballots have to be printed well before election day.

    4) A quote from 74 posts previous to this one:



    In Washington state the return envelope has signitures, date and a barcode. Once the ballot and the privacy envelope are seperated from the cover (return) envelope, there is no way of identifying whose ballot is whose. In Washington and I believe Oregon (possibly other states) all ballots are mailed out and either mailed back or dropped off in drop boxes.

    jtk
    Agree the laws vary by state but what's the logic behind a law that requires tossing a legally cast vote just because the voter died afterwards? Realistically, the number of voters who die after voting but before the polls close is statistically insignificant, why waste the time and effort to weed those votes out (if it's even possible) and toss them?
    Passing the elected position on to the spouse of a candidate who dies makes little sense either, what if the have totally different positions on the issues? What if they are registered to different parties?

  10. #85
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    I think thats why the exact wording of the laws of each state allowing early ballots has to be looked at carefully. We have an election coming up in two weeks. I am going to ask the folks running it about this.

    We have had two candidates who were elected while dead, I think for US Senate offices. There spouses were not automatically entitled to fill the job, the governor appoints them to fill a vacancy. This may be as a courtesy, but this avoids internal party squabbling, and appointing other candidates who were defeated in primaries from having a motivation for murder.
    < insert spurious quote here >

  11. #86
    Deaths are not recorded at the county courthouse in PA, since 1908. . It is a state death form, filled out by a coroner, attending physician or even a nurse and sent to the state vital statistics agency, which records the death and issues certificates. Families put death notices in the paper, and a private service reads the papers, on-line funeral home schedules, etc, and in turn notifies banks and other institutions. Back around 1875, I dated a girl who worked for that service. She started with the early edition papers at 7 am and sent out lists hourly. She finished up with the early evening editions by 3 pm. Her employer had some newspapers brought by courier just to rush the information out. They had about 20 0ffices across PA. BAck then, each bank or institution also had staff that would check master rolls of account holders so accounts could be frozen. Joint accounts between husband and wife are rarely frozen, because under state law, there is no inheritance tax and by law accounts held by husband and wife automatically go to the surviving spouse. Banks are required to send information to the state revenue agency concerning other joint accounts, so the state can be sure to collect inheritance tax.

  12. #87
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    Perry, not many "death notices" get to the almost non-existent newspapers these days, especially since they cost money to the family to post them. But yes, the paperwork is at the state level.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #88
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    I haven't been an Executor in Virginia or North Carolina since 2006, but it was required then to run a death notice in a local paper, and give notice that if the deceased owed anyone money that they had a limited time to give notice and collect it. I don't know about now, but Obituaries cost more money to put in a newspaper than you may have thought. Some of the family members put in really long obituaries and were shocked to find out how much they cost.

    With a Will, an Executor can get qualified very easily. I used to go to the Clerk of Courts Office to qualify in a few minutes, and go by the newspaper and bank right after that. There is no good reason for a bank account to be locked for any amount of time that would make much difference.

    With Inheritance Tax rates these days, it's not much of a problem, but one complicated Estate I did had a lot of property in two states, and not much money. It took me a couple of years to sell enough property to pay the Inheritance Tax back then. The accounting was pretty complicated too, but it all made sense so it wasn't really hard.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    I believe if a candidate dies right before the election he/she can still be elected into office. Then they have to decide what to do. Often the wife is appointed until there is a special election if they die in office.
    Bill D
    This has actually happened a number of times. Last year, a deceased Pennsylvania representative won in a landslide. With 85% of the vote.

    I recently watched an old West Wing episode where a main character worked hard and elected a dead person for Congress. Intentionally.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    I haven't been an Executor in Virginia or North Carolina since 2006, but it was required then to run a death notice in a local paper, and give notice that if the deceased owed anyone money that they had a limited time to give notice and collect it. I don't know about now, but Obituaries cost more money to put in a newspaper than you may have thought. Some of the family members put in really long obituaries and were shocked to find out how much they cost.
    I agree with Tom's comment here. When my wife passed away, I was flabbergasted at how expensive it was to place an obituary.

    And he's right about a time limit for people to make claims against the estate. More than a year after my wife died, I got a bill from Blue Cross. They said they made a mistake and paid for something they shouldn't have and wanted some money. I sent them a copy of the death certificate and told them the estate had been closed. Never heard from them again.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

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