MFT/3 value in shop with table saw and miter saw ?

[Greg Parrish]

I'm looking at some options to build a table that can serve a few purposes like sanding, outfeed, assembly, domino, tracksaw, etc. and have a curiosity question. My initial inclination was to just buy an MFT/3 and use it. Then I gravitated towards mounting an MFT/3 on top of a cart. Now, I'm thinking of other options but here is my question. Does anyone find value in the actual MFT/3 when they have a table saw and kapex/miter? Thinking about how I would use it, I can see myself using it simply for track saw breakdown, but not miter or small cuts. So, is the MFT 20mm hole pattern all that important when not using it for miter and setup purposes?

Part of my question stems from the cost of the MFT itself. Part from the fact that my hold downs and dogs are all 3/4. And part from the fact that I want something more customized than just the MFT itself. My plan would be to have something around 30x72 that rolls up behind my table saw. But also, when desired I can roll it out and into middle of room, and flip up my sawstop folding outfeed. Keeps equipment footprint down when needed.

So far, I'm looking at ideas like this for inspiration, but again want to know how necessary people find the actual MFT hole pattern:

Made from Bora panels: https://www.reddit.com/r/workshops/c...y_for_about_a/
Made with MFT sitting on top: https://thewoodwhisperer.com/product...-cabinet-plan/
An actual MFT top fitted to kreg table/frame: https://forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7347423

Thank you.

[Jim Dwight]

Greg,

I have a 3 foot by 6 foot outfeed/track saw cutting station/assembly table/work station in my small 14x24 shop. It is very valuable. It is based upon Ron Paulk's designs and has a double top surface with the surfaces 8 inches apart. That creates a shelf for storages of much used tools without them being on the top surface and getting in the way. Below these surfaces is other storage for tools like my DeWalt track saw and Festool Domino XL. I also have a 12 inch non-slider miter saw and a PCS.

For me a track saw is not a break down tool it is a finish cut tool. Crosscuts more than the 8 inch capacity of the miter saw are usually made with the track saw. If the piece is really small I may use my Osborne gauge on the PCS. For a cut or two, I just use a large square and mark the cut line and cut it. If I have a lot of crosscuts to make, and especially crosscuts on wide pieces, I set up my Paulk style crosscut setup on the same worksurface. It has to be trued a little normally but does a good job and when it is set up the cuts go quickly. It has a stop block for repeat cuts.

My work surface is drilled with 20mm holes on 4 inch spacing using pegboard and a router jig. It is not super accurate but is good enough for what I do with it. The 20mm holes work great with things like the Festool clamp to hold things being sanded, for instance. But if you have other things you want to use that need 3/4 holes I see no reason not to do that instead. I don't think there is any magic in the size or spacing of the holes in the MFT. Locating them more accurately would help with crosscuts if you use the holes to index the workpiece and your track. But I use the Paulk style setup where the track and workpiece are held in place by the jig, not the holes. The holes are mostly used to clamp things I'm working on.

Guys with really large workshops with sliding table saws may not need a track saw station. But for a shop like mine, making cuts on large pieces of solid wood or sheet goods using a track saw is much, much easier and just as accurate as long as you use good technique - use the tool properly.

Jim

[James Jayko]

Personally, I find an MFT (or an MFT style table) to be very useful in my shop. You have so many work holding options with the pattern and all the accessories. But if you have a good workbench, you can do all the same things in various ways. Its an expensive solution, but if you have use for an MFT outside of your shop (IE if you would find the ability to setup a temporary work space somewhere in your house when working on projects or whatever), the MFT is a great solution.

Why not just make an outfeed table with the 96mm hole pattern for your table saw?

[Patrick Varley]

The accuracy required (and therefore the cost to make it) is going to depend on how you want to use it. If you need a dead-on accurate pattern to use with a track saw, you'll either need to buy something premade, buy a jig (like the PARF system) or find someone with a CNC. But if you just want it for work holding, you can make your own jig and make whatever size top you need. And in that case, you can use 3/4" holes (instead of 20mm) to fit what you already have.

Personally, I found having the clamping flexibility is a great addition. I use a modified Paulk-style top on a rolling cart with storage underneath.

[Michael Burnside]

I have a 4'x8' workbench with the perimeter made of 1545 aluminum extrusion. I find that part of the "MFT" to be invaluable. This is not often found on traditional "MFT" workbenches, rather they focus on the dog holes. I have a Dashboard track holder which allows me to cut down sheet goods very quick and accurate. I also use it for drilling jigs, dados, etc. For the "dog" part, I used my CNC machine to mill a quadrant with holes on MFT spacing with 20mm dogs. I find this more than sufficient in the off chance I need a stop. Personally I find a workbench full of holes to be very annoying. I know a lot of people love the Paulk-esque workbench. While very cool, it's not for me.

By the way, anyone with a CNC can download MFT templates from TSO Products for free. TSO + MFT = awesome and it is great that they provide the CAD files for free if you want them.

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have a workbench that I use a MFT style top on. The MFT top is a little larger than the bench so I can clamp it when necessary to the bench.

I also have a MFT table, which I haven't used in about 4 years, standing on its edge collecting dust.

I use the MFT when I need to cross cut large piece of plywood that I prefer to do on the MFT top rather than on the floor with the track saw.

I use 20mm bench dogs as stops and if I need to use the 20mm holes for through clamping, again I just over hang the top off the bench. If I need to use some of the more central holes, I just put a few 2"x4" pieces, on edge, between the workbench and the MFT top, creating a temporary Paulk style top.

I made my top with the Part II jig which was simple to use.

When I don't need the MFT Top, it just stands with my other sheets of plywood.

P.S. the miter saw (in the picture) was just pushed there for convenience.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys. Lots of good food for thought.

I certainly don’t think I need dog holes across the full top. If I buy an MFT/3, they of course come that way, but if I build one I can put as many or as few holes as needed. I like some aspects of the Paulk style bench with one being storage of tracks and other tools below the top surface. However, it seems like I could accomplish the same with a more traditional setup like ones I linked above. Anyway, it will be a few weeks before I can build something so I’ll continue to research and give it thought. The biggest factor will be something that fits up against the back of my table saw with the sawstop folding outfeed folded down, but also rolls to middle of room when needed. I don’t have a ton of floor space available with my current layout so this will keep it in a good storage spot but also add functionality when needed.

And, if I’m understanding correctly, there is nothing magical about the 20mm hole size other than the fact that there are more Festool specific accessories made for it? Like dogs that work well with track alignment and what not?

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks Chris. Are you talking about this jig system? https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...SABEgIZc_D_BwE

I’ve seen the one from woodpeckers but also have seen complaints about its accuracy not being up to par. Don’t know much about it but the concern comments were enough for me to not order one. Is the Parf II system better?

Also have seen videos on using the LR32 system but I don’t have a Festool router or the LR32 system, only the track. The cost of the router and system would be pretty high.

[Jim Becker]

One function that I have found to be very well done by an MFT or MFT type table is routing cross dados in things like long shelving unit sides. The router can be guided by the track for repeatability and it's easier to provide nice support for the workpiece. I was never a fan of doing that kind of work on long things on a table saw with a dado set for sure and with an MFT type environment, you can set things up to insure things are absolutely square. With an appropriate sized table, two case sides could be done at the same time for exactly mirrored positioning, too.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Thanks Chris. Are you talking about this jig system? https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...SABEgIZc_D_BwE

Yes, except I got mine from TSO products in FL. https://tsoproducts.com/jigs-fixture...ystem-mark-ii/

[Michael Burnside]

One function that I have found to be very well done by an MFT or MFT type table is routing cross dados in things like long shelving unit sides. The router can be guided by the track for repeatability and it's easier to provide nice support for the workpiece. I was never a fan of doing that kind of work on long things on a table saw with a dado set for sure and with an MFT type environment, you can set things up to insure things are absolutely square. With an appropriate sized table, two case sides could be done at the same time for exactly mirrored positioning, too.

Very good points and this is exactly how I use mine. The side extrusions of 1545 aluminum will fit the Dashboard (https://dashboardpws.com/shop) guide rail bracket and/or track starts, allowing me to use my festool track as a guide to route dados, stop-dados, etc. I too much prefer this over my tablesaw and dado stack.

[Greg Parrish]

I'd love to have one of the actual dashboard tables, but boy would it be pricey once you added on the brackets and other accessories. LOL

Something like this honestly appeals to me also: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/w...h-accessories/

[Michael Burnside]

The Dashboard tables are a work of art, really, but if you have a traditional workbench, you can easily add 1545 or 1530 extrusion and utilize everything else. Rob even sells extrusions too if you wanted to build your very own. To me the Dashboard bracket and track stars are the real game changers in my shop. I actually bought 2 track stars first and didn't invest in the rest for a while later. They make the F in "MFT" for me.

[Derek Meyer]

If you want to use your 3/4" stops and accessories, take a look at the Kreg Adaptive Cutting System. They sell the top separately, and it has aluminum track around the edges as well as 3/4" holes. I think the spacing is 4". The top is 29 3/4" x 55", so not quite as big as you wanted but still pretty good sized. Price for the table top is $399 and includes some accessories.

https://www.kregtool.com/shop/cuttin.../ACS-TTOP.html

[Derek Cohen]

Greg, I cannot answer the question of how useful the MFT is (when you also have a tablesaw), but I am presently exploring that very question. Already it has found use with work holding, outfeed, and storage. I chose to make my own completely rather than buy the Festool version. I wanted bigger, more rigid, and greater flexibility. Also it is much cheaper to build one’s own.

The table top is easy-enough to make using templates (I had a friend make a template on a CNC for me, which can be re-used), and I also made my own hinge and fence. All this was posted here in recent months.









Regards from Perth

Derek