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Thread: A different way to grind the primary bevel on blades

  1. #1

    A different way to grind the primary bevel on blades

    Hello Fellow Neanderthals,
    When it comes to sharpening chisels and plane blades, some of you have the ability to will a blade into submission using only your mind so that it instantly becomes scary sharp with a square edge. I do not share such abilities even after employing various chants and magic spells. I use a Vertitas Mk11 guide to achieve consistent results. But I’ve had a problem getting consistent square edges with my grinder for the primary bevel, even with an updated wheel and tool rest. So when I use the Veritas guide afterwords, the bevel might be a bit different than the primary bevel from the grinder.

    While taking a break from watching videos of kittens and puppies, I came across a Youtube video from Taylor Toolworks that some of you might have seen. It describes a 5” or 6” acrylic disc that you use to attach Cubitron adhesive sandpaper and mount in your drill press. He details several uses, but the one that caught my attention was grinding the primary bevel on blades. The kit is inexpensive so I decided to give it a try. Here’s the link to the video: https://youtu.be/1QmDvJbfM-8

    The video describes building a jig to hold the blade at the desired angle to the bottom of the disc, which I did. This works quite well, but there can still be a slight difference between that bevel and the one that is honed with the Veritas guide. So, I started thinking about a way to use the guide throughout the whole process, and it came to me in the middle of the night, which seems to be where I get my best ideas.

    Instead of using the bottom of the disc as described, I use the top of the disc so that the primary bevel can be ground while using the Veritas guide set at 25 degrees. The guide needs to sit on a block of wood to elevate it slightly off the table to produce the desired angle, and that angle is dependent on how high the guide sits in relation to the disc. After some trial and error, I decided on a tad less than 25 degrees (not 2 tads), for reasons I’ll explain. The guide is set for the standard angle, not the microbevel angle. I first tried 80 grit but ended up liking 180 grit for a smoother finish. Just be careful of heat buildup; I used a slow speed on my drill press and a cup of cold water to keep the blade cool.

    The process is very quick. Once finished, I move to my 1000 grit Diamond stone for a few passes while the guide is still set at 25 degrees. Since the guide is now sitting flat on the stone, it produces a true 25 degree secondary bevel. And, that bevel is square to the primary bevel. I clean that up with a few passes on my Shapton 6000 grit stone. Finally, I adjust the guide into the microbevel position and move to my 16000 grit Shapton for that task. Remove the blade from the guide, polish off the burr on the back, and life is good.

    Of course, the blade angle for the primary bevel needs to be repeatable. It is dependent on the height of the table in relation to the disc. My solution was to glue a small block of wood to the original wood block. While the disc is spinning, I slowly lowered the block onto the disc until the assembly sat flush on the table, leaving a small dado for reference. To set the proper table height in the future, I just need to adjust the table height so that the dado is just clear from the disc. The photo probably explains this better.

    The photos show my results with one of my beater chisels, but I have since used this process on my good set. I now don’t have any excuses for putting off re-grinding the primary bevel when the secondary bevel gets too large for quick touch ups. Now, back to more kitten videos…

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Seems similar to the results you can get from the WorkSharp 3000, but at a much cheaper price tag.
    My Dad always told me "Can't Never Could".

    SWE

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Eure View Post
    Seems similar to the results you can get from the WorkSharp 3000, but at a much cheaper price tag.

    That was my thought too.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    Since you already built your fixture, you might as well continue using. However, a bench grinder is capable of getting the bulk of a primary bevel work done, one should not grind to the edge though. Next, a guide and coarse media should complete the job and result in a square edge. If an edge starts getting skewed, apply extra pressure on the other side.

    There's a tolerance that allows for not perfect square angles on most planes and with chisels if it looks square at arms length, then it's square.

    Pursuing machine precision in this task may be entertaining, but it's distracting.

  5. #5
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    Seems similar to the results you can get from the WorkSharp 3000, but at a much cheaper price tag.
    Or the Veritas Mk.11 Power sharpening system:

    Veritas® Mk.II Power Sharpening System.jpg

    The four grits used on mine, if my memory is working, is 80, 180, 40µ & 9µ. With the abrasive sheets being of different thicknesses the set up will automatically produce a secondary bevel when using the finer grits. My preference is for a single flat bevel. It is easy to shim up the finer grit platters to lift them to be the same height as the coarse grit platters.

    This unit was very handy in my days of buying all kinds of planes, chisels, gouges and other edged tools. Now days it is used for sharpening axes, hatchets, kitchen knives, shovels and other grinding tasks more than it is used on woodworking tools. My tendency is to keep my woodworking tools' edges maintained with a flat bevel on bench stones. The only time my woodworking tools, other than lathe tools, are ground is if an edge gets out of flat, nicked or a rust hunt find needs it.

    One thing I learned with this system is to purchase extra blade holders so multiple blades can be worked at the same time.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
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    As between the Veritas and Work Sharp system, what are the differences and advantages?

    My current problem is that I have some chisels with a short blade and neck which cannot fit into the Veritas Grinder tool rest and accompanying jig, so I use sandpaper for primary bevel sharpening and need something to maintain a consistent angle.
    Regards,

    Tom

  7. #7
    That looks great, as long as the disks run true.

    Variable (slow) speed. Easy set up. Takes up no bench space. Locates the process where there's already metalwork done.

    I looked on the Taylor Tools website, but didn't see this listed. Edit: did find it. I think I'll order one.
    Last edited by Cameron Wood; 03-09-2023 at 7:02 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
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    There's one important difference in MK II that's not present in other horizontal grinders of this type. Veritas uses ball bearing as rollers underneath the disk, which makes it stable and rigid. In Worksharp, both 2000 and 300 a disk will wobble a little bit and there is some play in the shaft, so Worksharp (and I assume a drill press) tend to produce a straight, but slightly out of square bevels. Same applies to flattening backs - they will be reasonably flat, but it's super easy to grind one edge slightly deeper than another. Worksharp requires a very light touch and some time to get used to.

    Veritas system is foolproof though, their fence system works awesome, unlike Worksharp fence (that doesn't work at all).

  9. #9
    Thanks for the input gentlemen. This is the $15 version of some of the well known systems, so I’m sure they have advantages. The acrylic disc will never be as stable as a metal one, but I was pretty happy with the results. I sharpened some plane blades today, and found that it helped to move the blade towards the center of the disc which is stiffer and moving at a slower speed than the outer edge. I am going back to using 80 grit, or perhaps 120 grit. The 180 grit was a bit slow and more likely to heat up.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas McCurnin View Post
    As between the Veritas and Work Sharp system, what are the differences and advantages?
    The one big disadvantage to the Worksharp system and why I sold mine is that it wears out the sharpening medium in one "track" around the disc and the rest of the disc is unused. WS used to make a bolt on above the disc accessory but it was discontinued many years ago.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

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