School me on Kitchen Cabinetry in Arid Climates

[Aaron Connor]

I'm in the middle of a remodel, including kitchen cabinetry, and located in dry Colorado, where its arid climate is harsh on wood.

Local cabinet makers indicate they won't use plywood or solid wood for drawer/door fronts, or plywood for carcasses, due to warping. All this sound right? I was surprised about the carcasses not being plywood for stability reasons.

I'm concerned about buying higher end RTA cabinets manufactured in higher humidity locations. Should I be?

Thanks!

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Yes there is some truth to it, but some of that is myth. I'm in dry part of NE, similar to your area. Once materials acclimatize, they become stable and all is well. Its that drydown period where things can get goofy. For example, I rarely use baltic birch here because for some reason it warps worse than any other ply and never seems to fully recover. I build cabinets here from time to time and it's just expected that there will be some waste because a sheet is shaped like a potato chip, or a board looks like a ski. Like you, we get wetter periods, so you do have to mind the usual design accommodations for floating panels in doors and such but nothing beyond the norm. Right now it's threatening to snow here and the RH is 87%. Yesterday morning it was 21% which is closer to the average.

[Jamie Buxton]

...Local cabinet makers indicate they won't use plywood or solid wood for drawer/door fronts...

So what do they use?

[John TenEyck]

So what are they using, Melamine or Thermofoil on particle board for the carcasses and MDF for the drawer/door fronts? Those are both fine, as long as the MDF gets painted, of course. However, solid wood and plywood are stable if they allowed it to acclimate, or they could order it dried to whatever the appropriate moisture content is that matches your average. I suspect they have not been able to get suppliers to supply the moisture content needed. Could be they are too small to get that level of service.

The only problem I see with RTA cabinets is cracking of the paint where the door panels meet the frame if it was made at higher RH and then dries out. Otherwise, if the parts were flat leaving the factory they should stay flat. Do they address the RH issue in their literature? I'd look at their guarantee and/or warranty, too. IKEA, for example, ships stuff all over.

John

[Aaron Connor]

Thanks for the insight, Steve and John. Most of the cabinets would be rift sawn white oak veneer, with some paint. Most of the RTA mfgs I've spoke with don't explicitly reference moisture topics, but say they haven't had issues reported.

Yes, most are using melamine on particle board carcasses (even from high end shops) and veneer over MDF for the door/drawer fronts. Some HDF, reporting some inconsistencies in MDF since the start of covid.

Do you all have any particular recommendations about clear/tinted finishes to seek out or steer clear of? This is an area I don't have any knowledge.

[John P Clark]

I am in colorado and use these types of material all the time - sounds like they just want to use the cnc and mass produce items - if constructed correctly there is no problems use the solid materials and plywood

[Aaron Connor]

Thanks, John - that is very telling. So, it sounds like you haven't had any cabinet door warping using plywood substrate?

I'm curious... what is your take on an RTA cabinet being assembled elsewhere and sent to Colorado, from a moisture/warping perspective, assuming well constructed?

[John TenEyck]

Melamine works very well for cabinet boxes. I used it for my own kitchen 30 years ago and it has held up fine. The downside is it's really heavy, the edges are easy to chip, and requires careful attention to construction to manage its lower screw holding capacity. The upside is it's flat, stays flat and the Melamine coating is very durable.

Veneer over MDF or HDF is very stable. I use this combination for flat doors/drawer fronts, with solid wood edging. I've had zero issues in over 10 years.

You can finish veneer most anyway you want. From a simple, hand applied product like Rubio Monocoat (very durable), to Minwax Oil Modified Poly which goes on beautifully with a brush and also is very durable, to a spray finish. If you intend to spray, I would only use a waterborne product. Lots of folks will use solvent based products but w/o a proper spray booth I'm not willing to do that.

Generally, I would steer clear of anything you can buy at the Borg. Gemini, General Finishes, Target Coatings, and many others offer a range of products suitable for kitchen cabinets. If you look for ones with the KCMA rating you can be assured they meet the test standards generally thought to yield a finish that can stand up in a kitchen environment.

John

[Aaron Connor]

Melamine works very well for cabinet boxes. I used it for my own kitchen 30 years ago and it has held up fine. The downside is it's really heavy, the edges are easy to chip, and requires careful attention to construction to manage its lower screw holding capacity.
John

Thanks, John. Yeah - probably need to look at weight difference, given we have a tremendous amount of weight over the engineered beam (below the kitchen), and keep throwing more at it - in a big way. Sounds like plywood carcasses should be fine.

I won't be finishing the cabinets myself... the construction is more than enough to bite off. Just learning about what is or isn't durable.

Thanks for your insights.

[John TenEyck]

If someone else finishes them they will want to use the products they know and trust. As long as they are KCMA certified and applied per the manufacturer's specs. it should be fine.

John

[sean meltvedt]

Fairbanks Alaska here, summer indoor relative humidity of 70-90 %, winter indoor relative humidity 10-20 %. All my cabs are 3/4 plywood boxes (finished both sides) some doors are 3/4 solid wood plank, some veneered plywood panel in solid frame. Captured panels must be free to move, which means they must be stained prior to assembly unless you want to see raw wood in the winter. So solid and plywood work just fine. Yes I use a cnc to make the boxes, and usually to put a pattern on a plank door.
So the short of it, I prefer plywood and solid over mdf or particle board.
cheers
Sean

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Thanks for the insight, Steve and John. Most of the cabinets would be rift sawn white oak veneer, with some paint. Most of the RTA mfgs I've spoke with don't explicitly reference moisture topics, but say they haven't had issues reported.

Yes, most are using melamine on particle board carcasses (even from high end shops) and veneer over MDF for the door/drawer fronts. Some HDF, reporting some inconsistencies in MDF since the start of covid.

Do you all have any particular recommendations about clear/tinted finishes to seek out or steer clear of? This is an area I don't have any knowledge.

My go to is catalyzed lacquer. I use a Sherwin Williams product, have never had a problem with it. Really like the fast dry and toughness. Stain and tint is pretty standard arsenal, all depends on what you are trying to do. Sherwin Williams tinted lacquer for the paint grade stuff but I have less experience with that.