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Thread: What crosscut configuration do you use?

  1. #16
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    I don't cut many through dovetails with a handsaw, but if I did, they would be cut to the line. Even if I'm using a backsaw for cutting small things, I'm cutting to the line and expect the cut to be the finished cut.

    Look at that picture of siding in my earlier post. If you cut one a little long to force it in place, the one below it will be opened up. In fact, they're all hanging on their nails in predrilled holes. You can take a finger and push on any one, and it will move in and out some. That's not just those in that picture, but every one on any house I've built.

    Anything less is just wasted effort. I build stuff for a living. Wasted effort doesn't work.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    Anything less is just wasted effort. I build stuff for a living. Wasted effort doesn't work.
    There is a big difference between furniture making and carpentry.

  3. #18
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    If the endgrain is not showing, yes, there's no reason to plane it. A table top, panel doors, through dovetailed joints, my simple coffee table, etc. have exposed and visible end grain. The sawn surface is not acceptable.

    This also brings up a design goal: end grain must not show or be exposed. I subscribe to that, but sometimes it's unavoidable.

  4. #19
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    Tom is building houses. As Warren said, there is a difference between what a saw cut must look like on a house and what it must look like on a piece of furniture.

    On a house the only exposed end grain may be on roofing rafters or window shutters.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera View Post
    If the endgrain is not showing, yes, there's no reason to plane it. A table top, panel doors, through dovetailed joints, my simple coffee table, etc. have exposed and visible end grain. The sawn surface is not acceptable.

    This also brings up a design goal: end grain must not show or be exposed. I subscribe to that, but sometimes it's unavoidable.
    Sometimes it's a design point. Like with through-any-joint. I agree though, all exposed end grain is planed. Sometimes, it's easier to cut wide and then plane to fit (did that today with a sliding box lid and a nailed on bottom).
    ~mike

    happy in my mud hut

  6. #21
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    This reminds me, I've a backsaw, made by a saw maker in Ohio, David Young, not a boutique tool. Thin plate, 15 ppi, filed rip. It rips and cross cuts. Here shown cutting a piece of bubinga to length for an oilstone box. The surface it leaves behind is very smooth, in many situations it would not need any more work.

    20210103_015030.jpg

  7. #22
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    And I used to build Factories, schools and 300k homes for a living....

    End grain on clapboards always went into a bead of caulk...why? Because we are trying to stop water from entering that end grain, and rot the boards off the house...

    With Factories, it was more about form work...like 12" thick by 10' tall concrete POURED walls...or "stick-built" Doctor's offices

    When the first job one does as a Carpenter on the Jobsite, is to 1) build a couple saw horses, and 2) build the stairs to the Jobsite Office Trailer, and to the semi trailer acting as the Toolshed..

    Yeah..BTDT...Got the T-shirts....

    IF a Factory had a Man door several feet above the ground (Loading Docks) time to form up, place and finish a set of stairs, with inserts to weld the hand rails to.

    Not enough to just build the forms...they also have to be able to be remove after the concrete is finished. Last Concrete job I did, along with building wooden deck around the guy's pool, was to help out with a drive way pour...where I also had to hand form a curb to match the city's curb....with just a "Mag Trowel"....

    Ever use a Circular saw to cut the curved radius form, to build a trench for a Blow Molder to swing the molds open..? BTDT...factory up in Marion, OH...blow molded Gas tanks for Honda...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  8. #23
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    There's no question that carpentry is different than furniture making. Since the original topic was about handsaws, I was just adding my experience with them.

    The Cypress siding in that picture was 27 years old when I took that picture. It's 32 years old now, and looks the same. It's well protected under the wrap around porch on the house with the copper roof in the picture below. No need for caulking.

    The other painted house has the same sort of siding with a different edge profile, cut and fitted the same way, but nailed up ever so slightly tighter. The ends of every board were painted before they were put up. I don't like to use any more caulking on the outside of a house than absolutely necessary.

    I use a preacher to mark siding by, and cut it with a handsaw. It can't be put up to that tolerance machine cut. Also, on the old houses like the painted 1828 house in the picture, nothing is always square level or plumb, so better cut to fit in place.

    I never worked on a job other than my own. My new houses that I built for 33 years were all spec houses on the lake here, and I built them to please myself, so didn't have to satisfy anyone else.

    The newer saw box has three dovetailed corners made with a router jig, and one cut by hand to match. I probably went over the handcut corner with a plane, but don't really remember. I've offered many people to take a quick look over them, and then bet me a hundred dollars that they can tell which one is hand cut. So far, no takers, and no winners. I don't really remember, but I can't believe that corner wasn't cut to the lines with a backsaw.

    Picture of preacher also. I doubt many of the siding boards meeting the corners on that 1828 house are square, but this way it doesn't matter what angle they are. Inside trim parts like outside corners on baseboard are marked with a preacher and cut with a handsaw too. All carpentry is not exactly rough carpentry.

    Just trying to add another perspective on handsaw use. I use them when they are the best tool for the job.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    Of course most doctors have fifteen or more.
    Not doctors in theeir intern year fresh out of medschool. We tend to pick between a decent set of woodworking tools and how long we can stand to live on ramen

  10. #25
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    Back to the OP; I prefer 9 PPI for crosscutting 4/4 surfaced stock (good combo of speed-smooth finish), but frequently use coarser pitch saws for thicker stock. Just cut 10/4 Mahogany with 5 PPI D-8, thumbhole. Also use a pair of 6 PPI Disston #12’s (rip and crosscut) for deck/gazebo building. Anything not 90 degrees is usually faster for me with handsaw- plus I can use the exercise��

  11. #26
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    This conversation reminded me it was time to sharpen my saws. So, I’m going to revise my advice. Having a sharp and well-set saw is much more important than tooth count!

    I took my rip and crosscut saw to some 6/4 hard maple after sharpening and was really happy with how they cut. My rip saw needs to have a little extra set now, but both of them cut much better than they did last week.

  12. #27
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    Tom, the preacher is genius

  13. #28
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    It's a Very old carpentry aid. I learned it from the "old" carpenters I had working for me when I was young. They were in their 50's when I was in my 20's. They used handsaws a lot, and I'm probably the last of the ones still using them as much.

  14. #29
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    One tip of mine to pass along:

    When I go to start a cut with the saw, I am usually just in front of the handle....a short forward stroke, pull back most of the way, then the next push should be able to do the work with the entire saw blade....back by the handle is where most saws are stiffer, and a bit heavier. IF one tries to start clear out at the end, saw just might flex too much to start...

    Try it sometime...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assaf Oppenheimer View Post
    Not doctors in theeir intern year fresh out of medschool. We tend to pick between a decent set of woodworking tools and how long we can stand to live on ramen
    That takes me back. I was married very young while still in college. We lived in campus housing and pinched pennys pretty tight. No Ramen, but we lived on utility grade ground beef at a dollar a pound and generic brand Macaroni and Cheese at $0.10 a box. Poverty builds character. I am definitely a character.
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

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