Rob Cosman Video on cutting perfect dovetails first attempt

[Monte Milanuk]

It is a nice, hard bound, full size book, about a half inch thick

Sounds like you got just volume III? The other ones are equally nice, though I haven't really read much of the last one (red cover) as it seems like more opinion / editorial content, at least from a quick skim.

There's a fair bit of stuff in those articles that looks a lot like the tools/techniques that Cosman (and Sellars) lay claim to in more modern times. Though to be fair, that original content was effectively 'lost' for a good while, and even now it's only available in hardback book format, which is less appealing to many in the age of video info-tainment.

[Jim Koepke]

My grandson Mike cut his first dovetails on a visit up here:

Mikes First Dovetail Box.jpg

He was shown the basics and left on his own while I took care of other chores. I checked in on him occasionally.

He had a little hassle with the fret saw but other than that they look better than my first try.

jtk

[Jack Dover]

next point to ponder is who taught it to Mr. Hayward.

Apparently nobody in particular, he didn't complete his apprenticeship because of WWI. After the war he didn't continue this path, because his dream was to be an illustrator, which he has became eventually. The last red volume (don't buy it, and if you ask me — I regret buying the first three, these texts are available for free apparently) goes into his biography a bit, including how he got to be at the magazine.

Mr. Hayward didn't bring anything new in terms of woodworking. He was a great artist and eventually a great editor, but most of hist texts are kind of community work - info provided by craftspeople, mail exchange with readers and from older editors — he actually had a chance to work alongside a few editors that did the "Work" magazine early in his career. The jigs and aides are there because it's what magazines do: keep their readers engaged with promises that they would be better woodworkers after reading a new issue. This applies to every modern day magazine too.

I think Hayward texts are great because they go into areas of tacit knowledge, which is important for someone being completely alone in the craft. I also think that magazine subscription was the right price for it. But the amount LAP wants for this and the way they decided to present it? I would rather pay for a class or paid dues to the local guild and find a mentor there.

[Jack Dover]

Though to be fair, that original content was effectively 'lost' for a good while

What do you mean "lost", where do you think Schwartz got it from? It's all available on Internet, free of charge, and I'm pretty sure at a good library too.

[Warren Mickley]

I think the best of Hayward's work is the books he wrote, not the magazine articles. He wrote about a dozen books, like beginning cabinetry, finishing, woodwork joints, carving, etc. The first books had titles like Beginning Carpentry, which was not about carpentry at all, but hand work at the bench. The term carpentry was used more generally for woodworking 50-90 years ago.

A lot of these books are still in print.

P.S. Lost means Schwarz didn't know about it.

[Edward Weber]

P.S. Lost means Schwarz didn't know about it.

I admit it, that actually made me laugh out loud.

NONE of this is new, just newly discovered by some.

[Jack Dover]

I think the best of Hayward's work is the books he wrote

A lot of these books are still in print.

Oh yes, this is right on, his books are way more methodical than a collection of magazine articles. And don't let me even getting started on LAP publishing and layout style or there will be atrocities. By the way, these green books could have been half as thick if all repetitions were merged into a single chapter. So as the content goes it's a great tribute to Hayward-illustrator rather than anything.

P.S. Lost means Schwarz didn't know about it.

Best definition of "lost" to date.

[Mel Fulks]

I read Hayward’s books at least 50 years ago, and was enlightened and impressed. Superior to everything else then available.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Lee Valley sells a combination version, Parts 1-3 and a separate Part 4, which is mainly projects. They are a large book, about 8x12 but only a little over a half inch thick. I got Parts 1-3, although I may go back and get Part 4 for grins. They are hard bound, and meant to last a lifetime. They are reprints of article with typos, which I love, e.g., referring to the soul of the plane.

[Monte Milanuk]

P.S. Lost means Schwarz didn't know about it.

Maybe so.

To me, 'lost' was more in reference to "most people who weren't alive and working in the trades when the articles were originally published have no idea they even existed, until LAP re-printed them in the current format."

[Jim Koepke]

referring to the soul of the plane.

All my planes got soul.

jtk

[Jack Dover]

Sure, that's one way to put it, though none of it is the case: Hayward was just one from hundreds of authors writing on the topic, not mentioning text books for trade schools and army guides. Books on woodworking for amateurs sells well at a volume since late 19th century, when productivity went up so more people had leisure time.

But let's wait until Schwartz "discovers" the Audell's Carpenters and Builders Guide.

[Jim Koepke]

But let's wait until Schwartz "discovers" the Audell's Carpenters and Builders Guide.

It was my great fortune to acquire a four volume set of this on ebay for $12.50. The information learned on how to drive nails without bending them was worth the price to me.

It also helped my grandson and me build two sets of stairs.

There is so much more great information in the Audels Carpenters and Builders Guide.

There are also other Audels guides for other trades.

Audel Books.jpg

Lee Valley offered a 2006 reprint but it is no longer available.

jtk

[Edward Weber]

For those interested
https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/AQ-1189.XX

I think one of the draws that the books of a certain age have is, that the methods usually employ a minimum compliment of very basic tools. This alone can make the tasks seem less intimidating.
They're not trying to sell you anything, you already bought the book.

[Jon Snider]

Two unique ideas that Mr. Cossman has, and actually no one has repeated, is the offset guide and the graduated saw.

The offset guide compensates the cut on the half pins on the ends by the thickness of the saw, his saw that he sells. But that thickness is pretty close to almost every other saw.

The graduated saw is a saw in which the first couple inches are have a lower teeth per inch ratio, making it a coarser blade and rougher cut, which in his estimation makes it easier to start the cut without the saw bouncing off the wood. I never had a problem with this, so the saw is a solution for which I had no issue or problem.

I like his videos and techniques a lot.

That said, I learned the Paul Sellers method at the school where he taught for over a decade in Waco, Texas. Its a much simpler and faster method.

On thing to thing about is a dovetail alignment board. Sellers just uses a hand plane to support the top piece for scribing, and one relies upon a good eye and perhaps a straight edge to keep things square. Jonathan Katz and others use, and sell, 8x10 board which has a lip on the side which keeps the tail board aligned with the pin board for scoring.

I disliked every dovetail guide made, like the Katz Moses guide and others. They are slippery and hard to hold onto the wood, and although some have magnets, to hold the blade onto the guide, I found them annoying.

Bottom Line for Me:

I'd start with Paul Sellers and make a simple wooden box using his method out of pine. This box was the exact box we made on the third day we took the class to make dovetails through the Paul Sellers method. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EqgMx7fvls I think you'll find that his method is good enough, especially after gluing and finishing the box, as any imperfections are either not noticeable or add to the character of the box. One caveat--pine can come out in chunks if the chisels are not sharp.

Next, I'd try making the same box using Rob Cossman's method using his offset guide and perhaps his saw. You might try a dovetail alignment board on this second box.

Then, I'd figure out which one you are more comfortable with.

This is a very good, gentlemanly and thoughtful post. Thank you.