Rob Cosman Video on cutting perfect dovetails first attempt

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, was that book Ian Kirby’s? One of the phrases you used reminds me of it.

Ah, yes. That was it. Thanks for reminding me.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Step 1: Learn how to cut accurately with a DT saw: straight and true. When you can consistently cut to a line and square to the face of the board, the rest of the mechanics of dove-tailing are relatively easy. Its accurate sawing that is the challenge. I keep a practice board in my front vise and make some practice cuts just about every time I visit my shop. Do this for a while and you will see your sawing ability improve. There are lots of other tricks but sawing accurately is step 1.

Phil said it best. Learning to saw straight and true to a line is the primary thing you need to learn. The rest is just marking out.

Mike

[Mark Hennebury]

Derek, I think that you have missed-placed your decimal point there on the plate thickness. surely you mean 0.015"

Joel, the “best dovetail saw” does not really exist. There are some amazing dovetail saws one can purchase, and I will include Rob Cosman’s in this mix since you raised it originally. However, all the available saw will differ in some components, and these will affect not only the way they are used, but where they are best used.

My favourite dovetail saw is one I made. I have made several, but this one has a 0.15” plate (which is thinner than the average at 0.20”), and the teeth are filed with 5 degrees of rake and 17 tpi. I like the hang angle and the 9” plate length. It is great for sawing hard, somewhat brittle Jarrah and Hard Maple.

Note in this example I have referred to a number of features. These features vary from saw-to-saw. What this means is that it is likely that dovetail saws will differ from one manufacturer to another. In my opinion, the Lie Nielsen is a very good saw, but better suited to a reasonably experienced sawyer as the rake is set high. This makes a more aggressive saw cut. The Veritas has a relaxed rake, which makes starting and sawing slower but more controlled. The Gramercy is another excellent saw, thinner plate and higher tooth count, but the thin handle has a higher hang and many do not get along with it.

The trouble is that there are not many who can offer a comparison of all the saws. First you have to own them as it takes a while to get to know them, and then there are different levels of ability, which affect judgement. I ended up withseveral dovetail saws, partly because I enjoy sawing joinery, and partly because they offer choices for different woods.

Give up on the idea that you can buy once. Your preference will change over time. My earlier recommendation of a Veritas 14 tpi stands. It is relatively inexpensive, but that does not mean that it offers less than, say, a LN. It is a very good saw. Later you may not even wish to buy another.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, I think that you have missed-placed your decimal point there on the plate thickness. surely you mean 0.015"

Looks like it, Mark!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Michael Bulatowicz]

TLDR: my suggestion--in agreement with others--is that you purchase the Veritas, learn to sharpen and set the saw, gain some real experience sawing with it, and figure out based on experience and experimentation what you do and do not like (including handle shape, rake angle, fleam, weight. . .). After that, consider making your own saw; easiest is to purchase a kit--I highly recommend the Blackburn Tools kits, though my understanding is that the wait times are still in the range of several months and I have no experience with saw kits from any other vendor.

I realize I'm a bit late to the party here, but I'll throw in my agreement on the Veritas dovetail saw as a great option--regardless of price. This was my first dovetail saw, and it continues to serve me well. I used it a great deal in building my skills--first with sawing and then with sharpening saws; it's inexpensive enough that I eventually decided to sharpen it. Thanks to the price, I wasn't afraid to mess up the sharpening and try again and again if needed to get it right. I was immediately happy I had done so. As I found out firsthand and as I believe I've seen Tom King comment--I'm almost certainly misquoting him here--if an inexperienced person thinks a saw might need sharpening it's probably long past needing sharpening. I certainly had made that mistake: I initially waited until I noticed the saw slowing down. Yes, I definitely waited far too long; by the time the slowdown was noticeable to me as an amateur, particularly with said slowdown happening so gradually, the saw was very slow. Once sharpened, it immediately cut much better. There are many saw sharpening suggestions on this forum and others, as well as Pete Taran's website (vintagesaws.com) where he has a "saw sharpening primer" under the "library" link on the left side of the page that many have found useful.

Years down the road and having acquired more saws, I sharpen and set all my saws myself and have developed a strong preference for keeping them (and all my other edged tools) quite sharp. After a few years of using the Veritas with no complaints but with a few stumbles along the way--my fault, long since corrected--I was gifted a couple of saw kits from Blackburn Tools. The first that I built was the dovetail saw, and it quickly became my favorite. I can't say whether it has anything to do with the fact that I made the handle and assembled, sharpened, and set the saw myself, but I do know that I like the way the handle is custom fit for my hand--something impossible on a production saw. I still do like the Veritas handle very much, but there's definitely an advantage to a handle that is literally made to fit your own hand. Over the years, I have gradually adjusted the rake angle to be more aggressive, but I can not find fault with the relaxed rake of the Veritas for a beginner; an experienced person should find the rake angle and fleam if desired easy to adjust to suit personal preferences and the wood being worked.

Every saw has its foibles--including my favorite, mentioned above--and once you learn your preferences from earned experience I'd suggest you build your own saw or at least a custom handle. Note that the Veritas allows you to do exactly this: the handle is removable/replaceable and there's not actually a need to build an entirely new saw to get a handle that is custom fit to your hand. Maybe I'll build a new handle for my Veritas--eventually--but I do like the stock handle as-is and it hasn't become a priority. Having decided on a preference for my custom-built dovetail saw from the Blackburn Tools kit, I changed how I sharpen the Veritas to add fleam. It is now a small crosscut saw and I still use it quite a bit; simply for different tasks than I had originally used it.

Again, to emphasize: my experience says the Veritas dovetail saw is a great little saw, price notwithstanding. The relatively inexpensive price makes it a great value, too.

[Joel Gelman]

I went to Woodcraft yesterday and purchased the Veritas saw. I made a few cuts with it, but have no good basis for comparison. I also ordered the Fret Saw from Rob Cosman. He called me this morning. Seems like from another recent thread he has a habit of doing that. I think that a very nice touch. I had a nice conversation with him, and we have mutual woodworking friends. I will buy his saw and a couple of "gadgets". I am following the advice of Derek and others to get the Veritas, and the advice of Derek that I should give up on the idea that I can only buy once. I want to experiment and do a comparison, and want to give his approach a fair try.

Hopefully unlike chisels, the saws come already sharp, as I am improving my Waterstone sharpening skills along with my hand tool skills, and hope to have a little time with that before having to think about another skill set.

[Ben Ellenberger]

A big plus with the Veritas saws (and I assume Cosman/Lie Nielsen, etc.) is they come sharp and well-set. Start cutting!

You’ll get the hang of it with practice.

[steven c newman]

Yep, just go and start cutting..
Dovetail work, Disston No.4.JPG
Just be sure to mark which is the waste...
Dovetail work, mark the waste.JPG

Just simple tools...
Dovetail work, needful things.JPG
No need to over-think things...

[steven c newman]

Work in Progress?
Wed. Chopping, lot of pins.JPG
You could say that...

[Charles Guest]

When you appreciate how important cutting 90* to the face, or to the end grain, depending on which half of the joint you're cutting then it becomes child's play. Too many beginners buy a very thin-bladed saw which actually can be twisted enough in the cut to throw off the fit. This often happens on white-knuckled first attempts when every muscle in the body is tensed, posture and positioning are poor, and one's whole notion of self-worth is on the line.

[Michael Bulatowicz]

90 degrees to the face/end is indeed critical for well fitting joints; tail angles (pin angles) can be sloppy when cutting tails first (pins first) as long as the appropriate 90 degree condition is observed on the mating part and the transfer of tail(pin) profile to the pin(tail) board is done well.

[Jim Koepke]

When you appreciate how important cutting 90* to the face, or to the end grain, depending on which half of the joint you're cutting then it becomes child's play. Too many beginners buy a very thin-bladed saw which actually can be twisted enough in the cut to throw off the fit. This often happens on white-knuckled first attempts when every muscle in the body is tensed, posture and positioning are poor, and one's whole notion of self-worth is on the line.

This is a good reason to practice a few before starting on building something with dovetails.

jtk

[Thomas Wilson]

The David Barron magnetic saw guide makes accurate saw starting easy. I recommend it

[Mike Henderson]

If you want an aid to starting your saw in the right place, cut a notch in the edge on the waste next to the line where you want to cut. It's an old technique - goes back to our ancestors.

Mike

[steven c newman]

I usually just plant my thumbnail right beside where the saw is to be cutting...and use the knuckle as a "guide" while sawing...