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Thread: Segment gluing advice

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Ohio
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    96

    Segment gluing advice

    I am starting a segmented bowl with Morado (Bolivian Rosewood) and East Indian Satinwood. I have very rarely worked with exotics and only got these boards because they were buried in a pile of lumber I bought at auction. I am finding conflicting info on gluing, with some people saying that titebond II is fine as long as you pretreat with a solvent. Others say not to use PVA glues at all. I would appreciate advice from people who have done segmented pieces with these or other rosewoods.

    Thanks
    Ben
    I've got lots of practice at making firewood!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Providence, RI
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    517
    Segmented vessels have lots of glue surface, which mitigates concerns that arise in traditional furniture joinery. When I work with oily exotics, I wipe them down with acetone until no more color comes off on the rag and then glue with Titebond and let it cure overnight. I have not experienced any glue-line failures while turning. Of course, epoxy will work as well but IMHO it's overkill in this situation.
    -- Jim

    Use the right tool for the job.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    I don't know about Titebond 2 as I've never used it on exotics, but I've glued them with Original Titebond and it's done fine. I don't wipe the wood with solvents. For east indian rosewood, pau ferro, bubinga, etc this has worked fine for me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Northeastern OK
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    The advice I have seen is to glue up soon after sanding or cutting. If not soon, then wipe with a solvent. Does it matter? I don't know but I have yet to have anything come apart using Titebond II or III (bloodwood, mahoghany, purpleheart, bubinga). That said, I glue up segments immediately after I cut them. I glue up rings immediately after flattening on the sander.
    Sounds like you hit the jackpot on your auction score.

  5. #5
    I agree with James,
    Titebond 2 is just fine for segmenting, I've made numerous pieces that have lasted years.
    The wood, in some cases, might need to be wiped with acetone before gluing, to remove the naturals that are at the surface and provide a better gluing.
    It's always good to check the wood database when working with species that are new to you.
    https://www.wood-database.com/wood-filter/

  6. #6
    Hot glue is good for segments, sets in a moment. It’s been used for a long time and is still the easiest to use. Has no creep . Sands easily.
    Titebond 2 is certainly good stuff, but for segments you have to do some rubbing. Hot glue is more “stick on “.

  7. #7
    I personally would not recommend hot glue for segmenting.
    Yes there are some high strength options available but "normal" hot melt glue is simply too weak and too thick to leave a clean glue line.
    If you're interested in segmenting, you can always look over at Segmented woodturners.
    https://segmentedwoodturners.org/
    There is a lot of good information available.

  8. #8
    Edward , thanks for adding info. I don’t know what normal is . Used it for years in employments, but only bought some once. There are
    different strengths ( there is a name and or numbers for the strengths ) . But what I was referring to is flakes or ground animal glue that
    have been used for hundreds of years. The lower strength stuff is used for things like the tops of bowed instruments as the tops sometimes
    have to be removed to make a repair. And according to some sources the Cremonese builders would sometimes remove a top to do more thinning. And modern repair guys sometimes have to open bowed instruments. Hot hide glue and “hot melt” are quite different ! We agree
    that “hot melt” is not for fine instruments, but children like it and it does speed up their work.

  9. #9
    Mel, It sounded like you were talking about a hot glue gun, BIG difference to hot melt (hide) glue that you're talking about.
    I just don't want anyone thinking that the scrapbook glue gun is good enough for segmenting.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    96
    Thanks guys, I will probably just stick with titebond then. Been awhile since I worked with traditional hyde glue. The way I am currently gluing rings, I like the longer open time of PVA.

  11. #11
    Either will work , but with all blocks being equal in size …except the last one, AKA odd-ball. The first quick glue,( white glue ) was
    rightly scorned for creeping , …although I was able to make some great popsicle stick baskets with it ! Yellow glue was the big butt-kick to
    hot glue . Some still accuse yellow glue of creep , but I’ve never seen it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Some still accuse yellow glue of creep , but I’ve never seen it.
    Using yellow glue for segmented work I get creep more often than when I do not.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Columbus, OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Darrah View Post
    Thanks guys, I will probably just stick with titebond then. Been awhile since I worked with traditional hyde glue. The way I am currently gluing rings, I like the longer open time of PVA.
    Titebond offers a hide glue with an advertised open time of 10 minutes which is a few minutes longer than TB3. If your wood is dark, then the brown glue line is a non-issue.
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Piercefield, NY
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    I have made more than 300 banjo rims with 54 or 72 segments each. Using Titebond Original I have never had creep. I have heard people say that creep is much more of a problem with II and III but I haven't tried them.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Zachary Hoyt;3230727]I have made more than 300 banjo rims with 54 or 72 segments each. Using Titebond Original I have never had creep. I have heard people say that creep is much more of a problem with II and III but I haven't tried them.

    When the glue is completely cured there is no creep. So, I disagree with the rumors ! My take is if you let stuff sit and set long enough ….
    there is no creep with the worst of “creeping glues”. Creep can be a big deal ,causing redos . Most shops just don’t have time for “aging “.
    So they use what works ‘right now’ ….and that’s OK. Guys who are running shops ,or cranking out a lot of goods working alone don’t want
    to wait. I think that a test with all the Tite Bonds would ,after two weeks max curing in a shop kept at 70 degrees ,or more , show that none
    creeped , and are not going to creep.

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