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  1. #1
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    my first oil stones

    Hi all,

    I'm a long time waterstone user and am basically happy with them. A King 800- and 4000-grit stone and then sometimes stropping on leather with green carbide compound. I have a course stone and various sandpapers that I use for rough grinding. My tools are mostly vintage, with some new O1 blades in the mix.

    But, I've been working in an unheated shop the last couple years and my edge quality goes downhill in the winter. Either I'm at risk of forgetting the stones outside and letting them freeze, or I'm not resharpening often enough because I'm waiting to sharpen back in the house.

    So, I'm thinking of getting some basic oil stones that I can use over the winter. My ideal would be a couple economical stones that could replace the 800 and 4000 grit waterstones.

    Any suggestions about types of stones, brands, etc? Grits? Also, what kind of oil? I do have a few liters of kerosine kicking around if that works.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Adam, this is a difficult question to answer without knowing your general location. You mentioned having "a few liters of kerosine" available. This makes me think you may not be in the U.S. of A.

    Your situation is similar to mine. My shop is unheated. As much as water stones have been my favorites for years, the shop is too cold to use water regularly during the winter months.

    Some folks rave about kerosine being the best lubricant for use on an oilstone. Others mix it half & half with mineral oil. For me the mineral oil available in the local grocery's over the counter medicine (home care) aisles works for me. It is often labeled Lubricant/Laxative. An inexpensive Baby Oil also works and is of a lighter viscosity. Surely others will chime in on their favorite mixtures and secret formulas. After all, this is now a sharpening thread.

    Not too far from me is a Lowes. They carry a Smith's 6" sharpening stone > https://www.lowes.com/pd/Smith-s-6-i...-Stone/3063983

    This is not a great stone but good for the price, ~$20. It is faster cutting than a hard Arkansas stone.

    If you are willing to spend more once for some great stones your heirs will be using try Dan's Whetstones > https://danswhetstone.com/product/bench-stones/

    The Dan's soft Arkansas is harder than the Smith's.

    There are quite a few stones from Dan's in my shop. An eight inch by three inch seems to be a good size for my purposes. Many of the other stones are slip stones and shaped stones for use on carving tools and molding plane blades.

    Hope this is more helpful than confusing.

    jtk

    -- As Edward Murrow said, "Anyone who isn't confused doesn't really understand the situation."
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Adam, this is a difficult question to answer without knowing your general location. You mentioned having "a few liters of kerosine" available. This makes me think you may not be in the U.S. of A.
    I'm in costal Nova Scotia (Canada). So mild enough that I can work outside most of the winter, but temperatures can drop well below freezing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    If you are willing to spend more once for some great stones your heirs will be using try Dan's Whetstones > https://danswhetstone.com/product/bench-stones/
    Yeah, I could see splashing out for a quality stone. I do like the sound of the Arkansas stones.

    If I got only one I would get a replacement for the 4000x water stone. That way I could do routine touchups as I work and go back to the 1000x water stone for coarser shaping.

    Any idea what would be the right grade of Arkansas stone for this? I'm not a fanatic about sharpening - the 4000x waterstone always seemed fine enough for my needs, maybe with some stropping to finish off.

    Also what about truing for the Arkansas stone? For my waterstones I just use some drywall sanding mesh on a piece of float glass. I'm thinking that would not work for the Arkansas stones?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam AR Brown View Post
    Yeah, I could see splashing out for a quality stone. I do like the sound of the Arkansas stones.

    If I got only one I would get a replacement for the 4000x water stone. That way I could do routine touchups as I work and go back to the 1000x water stone for coarser shaping.

    Any idea what would be the right grade of Arkansas stone for this? I'm not a fanatic about sharpening - the 4000x waterstone always seemed fine enough for my needs, maybe with some stropping to finish off.

    Also what about truing for the Arkansas stone? For my waterstones I just use some drywall sanding mesh on a piece of float glass. I'm thinking that would not work for the Arkansas stones?
    A reminder, my most used Arkansas stones come from Dan's Whetstones. Stones from other sellers may be different.

    If my memory is working the King 4000 stone is within the range of a Translucent Arkansas. You might be able to get by with a True Hard Arkansas and a strop.

    One thing from my experience is you do not want to go from an oilstone to a water stone while sharpening. The blade needs to be put to work a bit to get every last trace of oil off before putting it to a water stone.

    Water and oilstones are quite different in how they do their work. A water stone releases material as it is used. It is the released particles and the fractured material that is doing the work on the steel. A water stone is much more abrasive than an Arkansas stone. The surface of the oilstone is what abrades the steel being worked. This is why it is used with oil (or even water) to keep the pours of the stone from clogging or glazing.

    A good Arkansas stone will not need truing like a water stone. My Smith's stone had a valley down the middle. My recollection is it was trued using another Arkansas stone. My method was to run one stone lengthwise across the other. Both stones needed truing and both came out much better for the effort.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #5
    I use water with arkansas and washita stones, and use coarser carborundum stones dry- less mess.

    They can all be trued same as water stones, but you have to work at it more.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    A reminder, my most used Arkansas stones come from Dan's Whetstones. Stones from other sellers may be different.

    If my memory is working the King 4000 stone is within the range of a Translucent Arkansas. You might be able to get by with a True Hard Arkansas and a strop.
    Okay, I'll look into getting a true hard Arkansas. It sounds like that one is the one I'll be going to most for touching up. If I get another courser stone as well, would you recommend a soft or hard Arkansas? Ie. I'm not sure if this works in quite the same way, but which one would be a replacement for the 1000x waterstone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    A good Arkansas stone will not need truing like a water stone.
    Okay, interesting. That is very appealing.

    I'm sure this is going to take some real getting used to.

    Oh another question - does the "soft" in soft Arkansas mean it wears faster?
    Last edited by Adam AR Brown; 02-06-2023 at 8:41 PM.

  7. #7
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    If I get another courser stone as well, would you recommend a soft or hard Arkansas? Ie. I'm not sure if this works in quite the same way, but which one would be a replacement for the 1000x waterstone?
    The Smith's stone is more in line with a 1000x water stone than a soft Arkansas. It is more like what is called a Washita stone.
    A lot can be learned from a little reading. Here is one place to start > https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...ne-P1880.aspx#

    FYI, I like my Smith's stone more than the Norton Washita stone. It would be nice if it was a bit larger.

    Oh another question - does the "soft" in soft Arkansas mean it wears faster?
    Arkansas stones grade, from soft to ultra hard, is determined by the density of the crystalline structure. (this is combined with whoever is selling the stone) The less dense the structure, the softer the stone and the faster it removes material. Softer stones are also more prone to wear.

    Here is a link that may be of interest > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?287314

    More can be found by plugging this into Google > norton washita site:sawmillcreek.org

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam AR Brown View Post
    Okay, I'll look into getting a true hard Arkansas. It sounds like that one is the one I'll be going to most for touching up. If I get another courser stone as well, would you recommend a soft or hard Arkansas? Ie. I'm not sure if this works in quite the same way, but which one would be a replacement for the 1000x waterstone?

    I'm sure this is going to take some real getting used to.

    Oh another question - does the "soft" in soft Arkansas mean it wears faster?
    If you want a stone to refresh the edge of your chisels or irons, you'll be best served by a soft arkansas. A hard arkansas is a very hard stone, more like a polisher.

    The "soft" arkansas are soft relative to the hard ones, they're still hard but have a bit more bite than the hard ones. They are not as soft and friable as water stones. You can go to the strop from the soft arkansas if you choose that route.

    If you ever need to flatten one of these stones, the quickest method is to use coarse silicon carbide lapping grit on a piece of glass.

    P.S. There is yet a better stone for the workbench, it can be used as a single stone for most day to day sharpening, the Washita stone. The Washita stone is composed of the same material as the Arkansas stones. The silica particles are not as densely packed, so it is a "coarser", relative to the Arkansas stones. The historical Washita stones are no longer being produced, but can be found in the vintage tool market. If you locate one for sale and still has its labels, you should aim for the coarse one.

  9. #9
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    Nothing beats fresh 60/80 grit sandpaper for speed but it can be tedious to keep set up.
    It can be tedious to hone out all the scratches left by the 60/80 grit paper.

    Though it might be my luxury to have a four foot long piece of granite making it easier to use a finer grit in the 200 - 300 range.

    Granite on Horse.jpg

    This has pressure sensitive abrasive paper on its full length. It comes in handy for plane sole or back flattening and removing chips from a bevel.

    I bought this from a monument maker (tombstone carver) many years ago. (the image is old and that area is very crowed these days)

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  10. #10
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    you might want to take a look at spyderco bench stones. they don't need water or oil. i would start with an india stone as robert mentioned then move to spyderco.

  11. #11
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    I quite like a Fine India coupled with a "Hard" (inbetween "Soft" and "True Hard / Black / Transluscent" on Dan's grading scale) Arkansas.
    The "Hard" or as I call it, "Semi Hard" Arkansas is probably my favorite of the bunch.

    Both stones can be replaced with a single vintage Washita produced by Pike or Norton -- not the modern Washitas. These cut both fine and quick. But they can be expensive and hard to track down.

    Be sure to keep your oilstones flat and dressed. They'll stay flat for a long time, especially the Arks, but they will dish and the surface may need to be "roughened up" from time to time to keep them cutting quickly. If you keep them clean and dressed, they cut almost as quickly as waterstones.

  12. #12
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    One thing going for the Crystolon and India stones is they are inexpensive.

    The links below are for 8 X 3" stones. This is a good size for my needs. You may want different sizes.

    India stones > https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...-3-P23C25.aspx

    Crystolon stones > https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/N...-3-P24C25.aspx

    My Crystolon stone is about 2 X 4" and is only used occasionally.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #13
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    You could try one of the inexpensive (~$25) double sided diamond stones found on ebay or amazon. As lubricant, a thin oil like mineral oil works fine. Depending on the kerosene type you have, or if you buy branded honing oil, they can have a very strong smell. I can't use gas station kerosene in my basement shop, it stinks up the upstairs. Mineral oil is odorless and costs about $25 delivered on Amazon. Search for "food grade mineral oil".

    If you want a finer oilstone, you could get a soft or hard Arkansas, from either Dan's or Naturalwhetstone.com.

  14. #14
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    Mineral oil is odorless and costs about $25 delivered on Amazon. Search for "food grade mineral oil".
    It has been a few years since my last purchase but food grade or baby oil was less than $5 a pint last time it was purchased.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera View Post
    As lubricant, a thin oil like mineral oil works fine. Depending on the kerosene type you have, or if you buy branded honing oil, they can have a very strong smell. I can't use gas station kerosene in my basement shop, it stinks up the upstairs.
    It's "lamp oil" but yeah, good point, it is a bit stinky. I'll get some mineral oil.

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