Contributor
Has anyone actually said a plane or a chisel is the only way to flush dovetails?Maybe the people saying only a plane or chisel can be used to precisely flush dovetails and tune up the fit of a drawer don't know how to use a belt sander.
Someone may have said they avoid cutting joinery proud so they do not have to spend time flushing.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Sometimes....think 3/4 Overlay Drawers? Kind of a bear to get either in there....in case one has a high spot...AND do it without splitting a pin out, or a 1/2 tail....
4th Corner, needs 1 more whack.JPG
Same goes for finger jointed corners..
Drawer build 101, dry fit 2.JPG
As it does for these 3/4 overlay drawer fronts,,,
PIP Chester, dovetails cleaned up.JPG
PIP, End View, varnished.JPG
Of course, THESE might be a bit tricky to do when then are curves involved...
A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use
Contributor
Someone said belt sanding is imprecise. Someone else said so and so uses a belt sander because he lacks skill with a plane. It ain't necessarily so.Originally Posted by Jim Koepke
Contributor
I wrote that using a belt sander to flush pins is risky as it will take too much off the drawer sides and may round over edges. Warren stated that he does not have skill with a hand plane. Warren may be correct. I cannot imagine that the speed of a belt sander could outweigh the precision of a hand plane. There really should be no difference in speed, per se.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Contributor
For those of you that have a subscription to Fine Woodworking Online: here is an excellent article written by Christian Becksvoort focusing on the use of belt sanders.
https://www.finewoodworking.com/memb.../011277046.pdf
It was in the Sept/Oct 2019 edition of FWW.
[OP]
Contributor
I am fairly certain that Mr. Becksvoort would tell you that efficiency is important when you are making a living at custom furniture building.
When I have made dovetail drawers, using a Keller jig for through dovetails, I always allowed at least 1/32 extra if not a bit more, then use a random orbit sander to sand the pins-tails flush. I allowed this extra to avoid being a hair short and then having to sand the drawer side to achieve a flush fit. When I do this, I find myself using 80 grit to start, and then I have to progress up to 400. It is not like I just run the sander with 1 grit of paper and I am done. Any extra pressure at the edge or tilt, and a roundover which looks awful.
I thought one reward for addressing my woodworking weakness of not using planes and chisels and other hand tools enough was that with skill and quality sharpening hand tools I would save time and have a better result by using hand tools to over sanders for this task. That is why I found it interesting when I watched this video of the hand cut dovetails followed by the belt sander.
Contributor
Joel
You are not wrong. Nor is Mr. Becksvoort wrong. One aspect of woodworking that is challenging is trying to discern the best way to accomplish a task: it is so often the case there are a myriad ways to accomplish a job. I am strictly a hobbyist: I have no time constraints nor do I have to worry about the time invested in a project vs. the income generated from this effort. Truth be told, I don’t own a belt sander, and I would not run out and buy a belt sander to sweeten the fit of a drawer. I have the luxury (as many hobby woodworkers enjoy) of taking what ever time it takes to make a drawer fit to whatever standards you are working towards. Having said that, this does not invalidate Christian’s approach. I feel comfortable using a plane to get a drawer to fit correctly. I would not be adverse to using my 16” segmented head jointer to help in this process. Many ways to skin a cat. Christians’s approach may not be the best approach for all of us, but it works for him, and I suspect it works for many other woodworkers, particularly those that have to factor in time expended on a given project. I would caution that although there are lots of folks that think their way is the best/only way to proceed, in the final analysis, the best way is the way that works for you.
Phil
Contributor
Amenin the final analysis, the best way is the way that works for you.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Whether you cut your joints with hand tools or a router and dovetail jig, work on getting the parts sized correctly and fit together so that you aren't substantially changing their size after assembly. Slice 1/32" off those protruding pins with a Japanese chisel sharpened to 16,000# or grind them off with a belt sander, the drawer will still be as loose as a wizard's sleeve.
[OP]
Contributor
Oh... no. I am not saying with any authority that I think hand tools are better or faster for this task than a belt sander. For decades I have been a power tool guy that has always used sanders. I am just now starting to develop sharpening, chisel, and plane skills. I am not yet ready to start on hand cut dovetails. First I want to get all my tools flattened-sharpened, and I am buying some nice hand tools to have the basics of good quality. I was thinking when I got good with very sharp chisels and planes, I would save time on this particular task because this is best done with chisels or planes, but perhaps not.
Contributor
From years of experience, I can say for certainty that you can destroy a project much more quickly and efficiently with power tools than with hand tools!
Contributor
LOL! My preference for hand tools is often explained as being because my mistakes are made slower.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
and often with more finesse!
Contributor
My point is that the task you have set yourself - flushing off dovetail pins that protrude 1/32" - is undermining the goal of making a properly fitting drawer. Fit the front and back tight to the opening, cut the joints so the sides are as close as possible to flush with the pins, then use whatever method works best for you to clean up and do any necessary further fitting. The more accurately your joints are cut, the less you have to do after assembly.
Contributor
Exactly, Kevin. It is all about fitting a drawer, and trueing the sides is one task to be looked at with care. Accurate joints begin with setting the cutting gauge(s) accurately ... in my case, I set them for the exact thickness and not under- or over.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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