Why the belt sander and not a plane for the hand cut dovetails?

[Joel Gelman]

Well... I am going to explore a new way. I have a very efficient setup for making through dovetail drawers with my modified Keller Jig and a shaper. My MO is to make them to use with Blumotion undermount, and I have everything setup to easily make drawers very quickly. I make the front back and sides 1/16 over (1/32 x 2) to allow for sanding flush because that was suggested by David Keller on the video that came with his jig and I have not changed. Drawer fit has not been an issue. Just a matter of making the side to side distance 10mm less than the interior cabinet width and the ProScale and miter saw DRO fences are very accurate. But....those through dovetails will never look to me as nice as the more slender hand cut.



.Ryron drawers.jpgRyron drawers 2.jpg

[Kevin Jenness]

That's a horse of a different color. Blum slides have a very loose tolerance for width discrepancies compared to side-hung drawers, and the inside dimension is what matters. Just the same, you can save some time and effort by reducing pin overhang to a minimum. In my shop I would clean those up on the edge sander.

Beautiful wood, by the way. Bigleaf maple?

[Mike Brady]

I'll not critique a person who I respect for making a living at furniture-making. I have met Mr. Becksvoort at Lie-Nielsen, and even helped him load his car (like a true fan-boy)!

What did capture my attention was the way he inserted his chisels in the dog holes to temporarily store them. The one time I did this with a Lie-Nielsen chisel, it left the handle behind as it plunged to the shop floor. There is often more to a methodology than meets the eye.

[Joel Gelman]

Beautiful wood, by the way. Bigleaf maple?

highly figured maple and Brazilian Rosewood from Sam Maloof's stash. I was fortunate to be able to buy some Figured Walnut, Maple, Brazilian, and Ziracote. That project was used to make a wedding gift for my Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instructor Ryron Gracie, and I liked the idea of having certain things made of Brazilian. However, I am not sure he truly understands how nice that wood is the way you do, but I know.

[Tom Bender]

A piston fit drawer may not expand significantly due to moisture but the sides may warp a little due to moisture or due to overloading. And a case will tend to twist a bit on an unflat floor, which can cause drawers to stick.

Or the owner may slather on a coat of paint and cause problems too but we don't really care at that point.

[Luke Dupont]

Joel, I am going to appear very snooty when I say that that video and method by Becksvoort is a poor example of dovetailing and preparing a drawer. I simply cannot imagine that drawer fitting anything but loosely.

He does not saw to lines but leaves some to pare away with chisels. His chiseling is sloppy. He may be a whole lot better at using a belt sander - and possibly the only one to use this method - but the method must round over edges. The drawer looks reasonable from 6 foot. (A very good driend of mine, Chris Vesper, who is one of the best woodworking tool makers in the world, said to me that he was very disappointed by Becksvoorts drawer fit. Now I know why).

I don’t claim to be a professional, and I am not under the same time constraints, but I have friends who are high-end pros, and my drawers are up to their standards. It is not a race for me. Perhaps it is unfair, then, to compare how I do it with Becksvoort, who is working against the clock. The point is, you are not a professional doing the same either. There is no need to take shortcuts. What do you want to see when you look back on the work in a few years - a piece reflecting quality, or a memory of winning a speed race?

Becksvoort’s approach to marking out is very different to my own. If you want to watch videos of a style and method that I would support, watch Rob Cosman. In my own work, there is usually no waste to plane or pare away. This is deliberate. When fitting drawer fronts for a close fit, one does not want to alter their dimensions later (in this case with a belt sander - ugghh!).

I recently posted on the WoodCentral forum a series of links (on my website) for drawer-making. This may interest you, if only to give you an idea of what goes into the making of piston-fit drawers …

https://www.woodcentral.com/home/for...6373#gsc.tab=0

Regards from Perth

Derek

This post makes me realize just how incompetent I am. I mean, I'd never do the belt-sander thing, because I agree, that's... 'ugghhh', but the way he saws and chisels looked kind of on the 'clean' compared to what I do. And I probably spend twice as long doing it.

But then, I'm not doing this as a business and have yet to even build a serious piece of furniture. I cut dovetails maybe 3-4 times a year at most... once or twice, more often than not. So I guess I shouldn't feel too bad...

[steven c newman]

Sometimes...a beltsander does make more sense...
Second glue-up, side 2 .JPG
Because IF you plane from one end, to avoid breaking out any pins at that end...the plane will break out pins on the other end....IF you switch around to plane the other end, you will be going against the grain of the tail board, and get tear out...

[James Pallas]

This type of work is exactly why the Stanley #75 was made. The iron set flush to the sole and that gap at the nose is supposed to be there to go over the protruding pin or tail and the iron making a flush cut to the drawer side. I did a post a couple of years ago about this very issue. I demonstrated with a dowel but same type of work. This will open the can of worms once again.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Sometimes...a beltsander does make more sense...

Because IF you plane from one end, to avoid breaking out any pins at that end...the plane will break out pins on the other end....IF you switch around to plane the other end, you will be going against the grain of the tail board, and get tear out...

Steven, you do not get tearout when …

1. You plan ahead and arrange that the grain runs towards the rear of the drawer.

2. You plane with a double iron. Then you can indeed plane into the grain.

Before any planing begins, you need to determine just where wood needs to come off. One does not just start planing willy-nilly down the drawer side. Look for shiny high spots and take them off first. A block plane across the grain or a scraper, may be sufficient. The idea of just wacking a belt sander on the entire length is for cowboys.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

Outstanding! Way to go! That's the way to kill a thread!

[Keegan Shields]

Trading precision for speed is a cost cutting measure in my experience. Not a judgement, just a general fact.

Loose fitting drawers are quicker than piston fit ones. Perhaps his customers don’t care. Sometimes, I think the general public could care less about the neat things we are into as woodworkers. I tried to explain what book matching was to my wife… she could care less.

[Derek Cohen]

Outstanding! Way to go! That's the way to kill a thread!

Why Steven, because I disagreed with you?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[steven c newman]

One other item...sides have a bad habit of cupping over time....weather related....which will cause a drawer to stick, IF it is in a "Piston-fit" opening.

[Derek Cohen]

Again, Steven, choose your materials to match the design. I use quarter sawn timber (usually Tasmanian Oak, because that is what is available to me) for drawer sides. Quartersawn cuts are very stable.

Bottom line: be aware of design possibilities. There is no reason not to use piston-fit designs. I know that you are just trying to get the last word in here, but first get your facts straight to stop me correcting what ends up as poor advice for others to follow.


Quarter sawn sides:





Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rafael Herrera]

The first time you plane past the end of a work piece and split it, you learn not to do it again. You figure out that you need to plane into the wood, or create chamfers so the cuter doesn't catch the edges, etc. It's basic learning.

In the case of drawer sides, use the cap iron as it should be and you won't get tear out. It's not an herculean task to figure out how to set the cap iron up and use it.

Derek also makes a good point, pick your timber appropriately, not just the species, but whether flat, rift, or quarter sawn will work for your application and you will avoid issues related to wood movement. Not that I'm a fan of piston fitting, but neither am I of floppy drawers.