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Thread: Spindle moulder setting up for curved work

  1. #1

    Spindle moulder setting up for curved work

    Hi guys,
    I have Felder F900Z spindle moulder along with the Felder
    Curve Moulding Guard. My current project is to make curved windows and a big 4 sash balcony door.
    The shape of the frame, which is 2.7meters wide, is shown in .pdf attachment below. My question is:
    What is the best way to setup spindle moulder machine to machine such a long piece using a template?
    I am thinking of making the template from 12mm MDF but I am not sure how to fix the 68mm piece of long wood on the template properly. FYI, the guide ring is put on the top of the shaping tool.
    Also, what about using the power feeder to hold it down and push it against the tool?

    Spindle Moulder Template-Wood Assembly.jpgCurved Balcony Frame.jpg

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Ricard View Post
    Hi guys,
    I have Felder F900Z spindle moulder along with the Felder
    Curve Moulding Guard. My current project is to make curved windows and a big 4 sash balcony door.
    The shape of the frame, which is 2.7meters wide, is shown in .pdf attachment below. My question is:
    What is the best way to setup spindle moulder machine to machine such a long piece using a template?
    I am thinking of making the template from 12mm MDF but I am not sure how to fix the 68mm piece of long wood on the template properly. FYI, the guide ring is put on the top of the shaping tool.
    Also, what about using the power feeder to hold it down and push it against the tool?

    Spindle Moulder Template-Wood Assembly.jpgCurved Balcony Frame.jpg

    Thanks in advance.
    Ive done a lot of those. Always nailed or screwed the template to the back of the material. Without face down ,moulded edges won’t be
    as consistent . For curved work you can often use just ONE wheel ,and guide by hand. Some jobs ,in my experience, have required a
    “spring hold-down”, easily made ,or bought. With such a low segment you might be alright with one piece, but I prefer two pieces
    splined together.

  3. #3
    For hand-fed curves with a bottom mounted bearing or guide collar I like to use toggle clamps with sandpaper glued to a 19mm jig under the stock. For a top-mounted guide you need another approach. Is there a surface you can screw to, the back, inside or outside of the piece? To fasten into the edges or ends, build flanges into the jig. You can use double sided tape but a positive mechanical fastening is more sure. You will want to extend the template past the ends of the workpiece, and for handfeeding provide a wide base plate with handles well away from the cutter. You could mount toggle clamps to a baseplate and clamp down on both the template and workpiece. However you set it up the fastening method needs to be solid and reliable so nothing shifts

    A powerfeed with one wheel will allow steering the work, and can be supplemented with other hold-downs. Provide support on both in and outfeed. 68 mm is a substantial cut so rough out with minimal material to trim away. Depending on your tooling you may want a double faced jig that allows turning over so that you are always cutting downhill with the grain, or segment the piece as Mel suggests, although that is not a very acute curve. Segmented cutterheads are more tolerant of varying grain direction.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 01-31-2023 at 6:22 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Ive done a lot of those. Always nailed or screwed the template to the back of the material. Without face down ,moulded edges won’t be
    as consistent . For curved work you can often use just ONE wheel ,and guide by hand. Some jobs ,in my experience, have required a
    “spring hold-down”, easily made ,or bought. With such a low segment you might be alright with one piece, but I prefer two pieces
    splined together.
    Thanks for the quick answer.
    Do you mean that you screw the template on top of the material?
    Also what do you mean by two pieces splined together?

    Thanks again for the hints.

  5. #5
    Yes , face of material on “the iron” . The spline to hold two pieces together is used when there is a possibility of breaking , like hinged
    stuff . As flat as your arc is one piece is OK . The side that will be outside in the weather should have the ‘bark-side’ facing the outside air , since any conifer wood not bark-side out has a good chance “rough grain pop-up “no matter how well painted .

  6. #6
    Thank you for your time replying to this thread guys,
    I assume that spline two pieces is the same thing like the method in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhmyXuf9mCY
    Most of my profiling tools remove quite a bit of wood from the piece as you can see in the tool drawings. So I believe that with one pass, it would be quite difficult to push through the material while having only one wheel of power feeder and my hands to help. How do you manage to make use of one wheel only from power feeder? And how could I rough out most of the material? Two shallow passes are possible probably by having a wider copy bearing guide on the top of the shape tool?
    Also, is there any room for the base plate while the power feeder is in use?

    resco.pngviber_image_2023-01-31_17-28-09-677.jpg

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Paul,
    I am semiretired but still build Euro doors mostly now and still a few windows. For curves on these I run the template on top screwed to the workpiece using one wheeel on the feeder. The wheel should be positioned approximately 20mm off center to the cutter to the infeed side. Some feeders you can tilt up on their nose, some you have to remove wheels.
    on arched windows and doors I normally do the inside sash cuts first screwing the template into waste part of outside. For the final outside cit the template can be screwed to blocks mounted in the glass rebate or through the tenons on the rails. The advantage of template on top is you can go from profiling the straight pieces to curves without changing the cutter height.

    the outside cuts (storm proofing) can be very deep and I usually do in 2 passes using a adjustable dead collar. If using bearings a couple different sizes is helpful. Sometimes I shape the inside before assembly and sometimes after. Depending on joinery and size. For the outside cuts sometimes I use a false fence bridging the cutter head instead of a dead collar.

    Hopefully the pictures will explain better.
    Joe
    FD52EFF4-C830-4CBA-8EEE-4F184D70AAE1.jpg
    09DB9F06-6B82-490E-967B-FE6E49018CA3.jpg

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    North Dana, Masachusetts
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    486
    Tilt the stock feeder so only one wheel hits. The wheel should toe in 5 degrees to the tangent of the cutting circle.
    I use a starting pin made out of a piece of wood clamped to the table. The wood holds the dust collection hose. I add wood as needed to guard the sides, top, and back. For convex curved work, the fences can stay on the shaper.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Paul,
    I am semiretired but still build Euro doors mostly now and still a few windows. For curves on these I run the template on top screwed to the workpiece using one wheeel on the feeder. The wheel should be positioned approximately 20mm off center to the cutter to the infeed side. Some feeders you can tilt up on their nose, some you have to remove wheels.
    on arched windows and doors I normally do the inside sash cuts first screwing the template into waste part of outside. For the final outside cit the template can be screwed to blocks mounted in the glass rebate or through the tenons on the rails. The advantage of template on top is you can go from profiling the straight pieces to curves without changing the cutter height.

    the outside cuts (storm proofing) can be very deep and I usually do in 2 passes using a adjustable dead collar. If using bearings a couple different sizes is helpful. Sometimes I shape the inside before assembly and sometimes after. Depending on joinery and size. For the outside cuts sometimes I use a false fence bridging the cutter head instead of a dead collar.

    Hopefully the pictures will explain better.
    Joe
    FD52EFF4-C830-4CBA-8EEE-4F184D70AAE1.jpg
    09DB9F06-6B82-490E-967B-FE6E49018CA3.jpg
    Joe, thanks for your useful info on this.
    Do you firstly trim the wood that is a bit bigger than template and then pass it through the tool or you leave the excess to be machined directly?
    Also, I have only one guide bearing, which allows for one pass full depth.
    What is adjustable dead collar and how a false fence bridged the cutter head?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Paul Ricard; 02-01-2023 at 9:58 AM.

  10. #10
    Fun project! With such a long piece, I'd be inclined to find a way to attach and/or clamp the template at many places along the rail to make sure the two stay snug together. I have just attached templates to the rail through the tenons before milling in the past, but that's only two points of contact. One real advantage of template on the top is that your profile machining can all be done at the same time for the whole unit and everything is identical. It sounds like you're headed there anyway. For some reason I always see folks skimping on the lead in and lead out portion of the template. Especially with a long component like this, give yourself lots of lead in and lead out material....it's cheap and makes for less stress.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Paul,
    For curves on these I run the template on top screwed to the workpiece using one wheel on the feeder.
    Joe, how do you deal with the screw holes for clear finished work? Filler? Screws or nails into the top face simplifies things a lot if the holes are not objectionable.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Ricard View Post
    Joe, thanks for your useful info on this.
    Do you firstly trim the wood that is a bit bigger than template and then pass it through the tool or you leave the excess to be machined directly?
    Also, I have only one guide bearing, which allows for one pass full depth.
    What is adjustable dead collar and how a false fence bridged the cutter head?


    Thanks.
    Paul,
    first the template is made. Notice I did not route totally through for the outside cut as this is done last. Also I can screw into the waste wood to hold it for the inside cut.
    9B007894-F32E-4532-AD8D-105697A2458C.jpg31B08E4C-1199-431C-BCA2-251D80975B7E.jpg

    Next rough bandsaw the inside cut to 3 to 4mm of the finish cut. Don’t cut the outside yet so you have something to screw into.
    6E79ED62-0B62-4A68-B2C3-14FE475A8C2B.jpg
    Oops, wrong picture this is a setup for shaping without a template using the split tooling method. That is another discussion. But the routed lines in the picture are the finish cut and I am cutting close to that.
    Here is a picture of the workpiece bandsawed close to the line ready for inside sash cut. Notice the template is screwed to the tenons. You can see the adjustable dead collar above the cutter. If you have the Felder curve hood it should have a simple adj collar?
    D225BE81-E72B-47DC-8AE1-B029CE353F7D.jpg

    here is a example of a shop made false fence. Different process but you get the idea. With this method you can take smaller cuts moving the fence back to get to target size.
    AE46C3B0-65CE-4D8C-8A86-FB973A0F253B.jpg

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Joe, how do you deal with the screw holes for clear finished work? Filler? Screws or nails into the top face simplifies things a lot if the holes are not objectionable.

    Kevin,
    no screw holes in finish work. If you look at the first picture upstream notice the template is screwed to blocks in the glass rebate.
    there is always a way to attach templates.
    This just completed unit was made partially with templates and on the larger pieces no templates using split tools.
    C45F9D93-14AB-4B6E-B79A-C7AF119382DB.jpg

  14. #14
    While template routing 1.5" thick curved chair legs I've had good success using the "superglue sandwiched between paint tape" technique for holding the template to the top of the work. The tape peels off easily with no damage to the work. I do first bandsaw fairly close to the line (perhaps 1/8" away) in order to keep the excitement down. I figure that if I'm not pushing as hard to do the cut then I'll also exert less lateral pressure on the glued-on template. I can get away with 3, ~4" strips of tape for each 36" chair leg. Each strip of tape has 3-4 dots of medium CA.

    I do realize that OP is dealing with a bigger project but the technique might work with more tape and/or glue.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by William Hodge View Post
    I use a starting pin made out of a piece of wood clamped to the table. The wood holds the dust collection hose. I add wood as needed to guard the sides, top, and back. For convex curved work, the fences can stay on the shaper.
    Thanks for the info, could you please share a photo, if available, regarding the info in this quote?
    Thanks.
    Last edited by Paul Ricard; 02-01-2023 at 5:56 PM.

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