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Thread: Look at these YouTube instructors. How many of these planes and chisels get used?

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    Look at these YouTube instructors. How many of these planes and chisels get used?

    I have been doing woodworking many years, and consider myself very average as I have great machines and can make some nice things, but I have not really invested time into buying and using hand tools. When I get better at that, then I will consider myself an above average woodworker. I have had a LN #4 and #62 and block plane for many years along with my Craftsman from high school, and some Marples and old Japan Woodworker chisels, but used machines or reached for sanders or roundover bits when I should have used a plane on many occasions, which would have saved on time, noise, dust etc. Yea, I can make nice dovetails with my Keller jig, but nothing like what a delicate hand dovetails looks like.

    I am now focusing on improving my hand tool skills, and am on the wait list for a 4 day precision with hand tools workshop with Garrett Hack. A friend recently showed me the advantages of the Veritas Hinge plane over a template jig for a router when trying to fine tune the mortises on a door for a better fit and one is on order. I was able to buy 2 used Holtey planes at such a low price I feel it is unfair, but for sure I have gotten rid of things of value for way less than what I paid many times. After reading the thread on the shooting boards, I purchased a LN #51. Went to a sharpening class at Woodcraft this past month.

    I am in no hurry to start buying a lot of tools. I will buy only what I anticipate using. Maybe a shoulder plane would be next. Anyhow, for just having several more planes and a plan to maybe buy better chisels, I am needing to re-do the storage space around my old Diefenbach workbench. I do not want to keep re-doing my layout, and want to within reason plan space for the possibility of some future additions.

    As I look at other shops

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BAWNOi86FQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyfvygylyJg

    I see impressive numbers of hand tools, and a lot of shop real estate was needed to organize and store them. I was wondering how many of those planes and chisels actually get used and how many are for a collection.
    On the cover of the Toolbox Book is the amazing tool cabinet of Andy Rae, and I see far less tools. I count 14 planes including I think a shoulder, a router plane, and several block planes. Maybe he has others. Maybe not and that is all a master craftsman needs.

    I was wondering in a shop where one does not use only hand tools and does not use wood planes to create a variety of profiles in wood or to flatten boards in situations where a planer will do that, just how many planes and chisels (not counting turning or carving) can one have before some of them are no better at a task than another one that is owned. I am thinking part of it is the collection bug, and I understand that and nothing wrong with that. Not for me. If any of those guys actually use all of those planes and chisels, I am thinking wow, what a skill level to appreciate so many distinctions.

    I know now many planes one "needs" is influenced by how one defines "need" but I was just trying to think about my space.
    Last edited by Joel Gelman; 01-27-2023 at 11:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Jealous, are we?
    Tool Chest Tour, Opened, left side.JPG
    Yes..they all indeed get used,,,as needed
    Tool Chest Tour, The Plane Til.JPG
    My Tool Chest..and my Plane Til...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  3. #3
    Jealous? No. Fascinated? Yes. I see what looks like 6 hand braces and 3 egg beater drills. I remember having a Craftsman hand brace and auger bits when I first started woodworking in junior high school. Then, as I moved on to Forstner bits and a drill press, I never used the auger bits, and did not like the way they cut, and so I got rid of those things a long time ago. Maybe there was something about them I did not appreciate. I could see where someone may want one and one egg beater in particular, and like the control of the rotation etc, but I would not know how 3 egg beaters and 6 hand braces of them would all drill into wood differently. I am learning as to not always be an average woodworker. Part of that is to understand these things.
    Last edited by Joel Gelman; 01-28-2023 at 12:50 AM.

  4. #4
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    I was wondering how many of those planes and chisels actually get used and how many are for a collection.
    A very important question for every woodworker to consider. The simple answer is for most woodworking one could get by with a smoother, a jack and a jointer.

    Which planes to use for those tasks would depend on a few parameters. Those would be the scope of the work including the size of the work. Next consideration would be the size of the user. As an example for a wide area of work and a woodworker with smaller hands, the preferred smoother might be a #3, the jack could be a #5-1/4 and the jointer might be a #6 or #7. A larger person with bigger hands, especially if they plan for larger projects, might like a #4-1/2 for a smoother, a #5-1/2 for their jack and a #8 for jointing.

    A combination plane like the Stanley #45 might be useful if you wanted to make rabbets or slots for drawers. The #45 can also make some simple molding shapes. Otherwise a straight rabbet plane would be useful.

    A low angle block plane would also be useful. The 65-1/2 is a good size and has a lever cap which for me is more comfortable when using it for shooting end grain.

    IMO, a standard angle block plane can't do anything a regular bench plane can do.

    Then a router plane is useful in many hand tool operations.

    For a minimalist shop that is usually plenty of planing power.

    Then there are people like me who have a hard time making a decision so we just get at least one of each and then a few more.

    Plane Wall.jpg

    That is an old picture. There have been a few added since then and there are others on a different bench and in boxes. Almost all of them do get used. There are a few spares stashed away. Just haven't got around to figuring out what to do with the yet.

    Then there are the chisels. A whole lot of chisels. For most people a good set of bench chisels would be fine. Maybe add a few mortise chisels. Not me, there iis a set of butt chisels (short chisels), paring chisels, firmer chisels and hevier flat sided chisels. There are a bunch of others pluse a few boxes of gouges/carving chisels.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 01-28-2023 at 1:38 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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    After watching the first video and realizing the Rob Cosman video, second video, is one that has already been viewed a few other things came to mind.

    Two of my jack planes are set up with heavily cambered blades for use as scrub planes. This would be a #5-1/4 and a #5. My #5-1/2 has a spare blade that is also heavily cambered for use as a scrub plane along with a #40 scrub plane.

    A couple of the jack planes are set up for very light shavings like a long smoother. Another is set up to take heavier shavings like a short jointer.

    Very few of my planes have been purchased new. Some folks do not like restoring old iron. It is one of my joys in life.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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    Looking at that flake board would drive my eyes crazy! I would take it all down and paint the wall a very pale blue, then put it back up.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

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    The eggbeaters....Each seem to have a different range of either Speed, or how big, or small a bit used..one even has a way to shift gears.

    Braces.....IF you need torque to spin a larger bit...a bigger "sweep" size will do...if you need speed ( like spinning a counter-sink bit) the smallest braces will have more speed.

    Each of the jack planes is set up a hair different, in terms of camber...from none up to 8" radius camber...

    Block planes? Yep, always find a need for one....standard angle...low angle...depends on the job.

    Maybe a size of try square is too big, or too small for a job. Bevel gauges..again, according to the size of the job. Along the back edge of my bench, there is a rack to hold most of my selection of chisels.

    Handsaws? I do have a few...and will make use of them as the need arises...

    The shop is a Hybrid Shop in a small basement...that also shares space with the Laundry Room, the furnace for the house, and the hotwater heater...along with a 10' x 10' storage space...when I am sitting down on the Shop Stool, doing Joinery work....the Washer also serves as a backrest. Cramped? Maybe, I still make things work.

    Usually, the doors for the tool cabinet and the other tils are closed....I open them to get out a tool I need, then close the doors...
    Tool Chest Tour, close the doors.JPG
    same with the "Specialty" planes, and the Plane Til..
    Tool Chest Tour, Box lots.JPG


    Eggbeaters...Been using one to drill pilot holes for the small hinges I use.....Have another that will handle up to 3/8" bits...but can't crank down tight enough for the 1/16" bits..
    There is a 10" sweep brace I keep handy for a Stearns adjustable round tenon cutter...

    There is a set of Irwin Expansive bits in the Tool Cabinet.....that I will use with either the 12" Samson brace, or, the 14" Stanley brace...as I needed to drill a hole for the front deck's Umbrella's post, through treated 2 x 8 railings....had more control than trying to use a hole saw.

    Do NOT set 2 block planes together in a drawer.....because the next time you look into that drawer ....6 block planes will be staring back at you....
    Tool Chest Tour, Lower Left Corner.JPG
    Yeah...worse than Mice....
    Tool Chest Tour, Lower left door details.JPG
    Just hanging around...
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

  8. #8
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    I live and work in an ultra tiny Japanese apartment room, half of which is my office -- a space so small that most here would deem "impossible" to use as workshop and have even suggested I think about another hobby.

    Likewise, I have very, very few tools by anyone's standards. A few sets of chisels, Japanese and western. Maybe about 5 saws that I use. About 5 planes that I use, half of them western and the other half Japanese, and about 4-5 specialty planes (kiwa-ganna, a grooving plane, a rabbit plane and a few rounds.). Bit and brace. A single gouge. A bunch of marking tools and clamps. A Japanese spoke-shave. That's about all, really. I don't build any large furniture and I do 100% of the work by hand.

    If you have machines for the rough work, you really don't need that many tools and can dispense with things like scrub planes, large rip saws, and larger jointer planes.

    You honestly don't even need a jointer, or any number of other planes. They're just more convenient and make the work go by quicker -- kind of like adding middle stones in a sharpening progression. You can get by with 2 stones just fine. Some people like to progress through 4-5 stones just to make it more efficient, though. And many collect all kinds of stones that are redundant or unnecessary, just because they like them. It's the same with tools. You really don't need a whole lot.

    Early on in my woodworking journey I enjoyed watching Paul Sellers for precisely this reason -- he shows how to do everything with just a few basic chisels, a No# 4 plane, and a tenon saw. It's a great approach when you don't have a house full of specialized tools for every given situation, and builds a lot of fundamental skills -- albeit, it's never as efficient as having the perfect tool for the job.

    Everything's a trade off, though. Time and money is best spent mastering a small set of tools and basic skills in the beginning. Then you can make life easier with each additional tool purchase.

    When it comes to duplicate tools, every additional tool covering the same role adds incrementally less value. There's no real reason to have more than a single 10" swing brace, for example. And you needn't even have more than one brace at all -- a 12" swing is nice for when you really need torque and a 6" or 8" is nice for smaller work, but a 10" will do everything satisfactorily. The rest are just either "nice to haves" or "fun to haves."

    The law of diminishing returns really does apply here. Especially if you collect so many that you can't find anything or store everything. I have a hard enough time with my extremely modest set of tools.

    I've stopped buying tools and decided to just invest a hell of a lot of money so that I can retire, and then have the money and time to buy and enjoy them later in life.

    Albiet, I guess there's an argument to be had that vintage tools may just be a good investment / inflation hedge. I think you would've done at least as well as if investing in Gold or Stocks over the last 5-6 years...
    Last edited by Luke Dupont; 01-28-2023 at 1:27 AM.

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    The ‘enjoying later in life’ thing is not so simple. Later in life you wish you had made even more lovely furniture for yourself to enjoy during your life. Later in life you wonder why you are making it now, you managed without for so long. Children and grandchildren have a clear need for furniture that take president over your needs! Now is your best chance to make yourself stuff!

    Yes you can make a lot with very little, that is the beauty of traditional joints, all of which can be made with just a few tools. Your tool collection is far from spartan! Raw stock preparation may be your biggest road block time wise. A local college may be able to help out?

    Old tools as an investment? Even using them to make furniture is a meagre income. ‘People’ have no comprehension of the time and care to make furniture that will last 100 years. They don’t want to invest in such furniture. One of my nephews sells wine in Hong Kong, his customers spend more on a bottle of wine than a piece of fine furniture. You have to be very good to sell them furniture.

    An important thought is by continuing now you will get better. Your artistic journey continues and takes you to a place you would never have got to ‘later’.

    I’m full of admiration for your small space set up. Despite my 1,400 sq ft workshop with a 14 ft ceiling, all my fine furniture is made on one workbench. Excluding the raw wood prep my set up resembles yours. The rest is storage, piles of wood, a huge plywood storage rack and other manufacturing areas. A drill press I would miss.

    More tools that make unusual tasks easier is a luxury. You have to remember you have them because you almost never use them, then you have to find them! The number of times I go through boxes and say “good grief, I have one of those!” Is not even funny! I need to buy nothing! I just have to find it! That 6V halogen bulb I put in a safe place……

    Make a furniture list for yourself now before your family give you their list……
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  10. #10
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    Currently sitting at a Computer Desk that I made in the Dungeon Woodshop. made from Ash....with 6 six drawers that never bind, no matter the Humidity.

    This IS a Hobby, to me. Gives me something to do in Me Dotage, you might say. Keeps the body in shape, too.....whether in bit the miles of walking around on a Rust Hunt...or the 3 hours of pushing bench planes around....Beats sitting around all day just watching the TV....or playing games on a Computer....Just be sure to remove the Bi-focals before you head down the stairs to the shop....
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    The ‘enjoying later in life’ thing is not so simple. Later in life you wish you had made even more lovely furniture for yourself to enjoy during your life. Later in life you wonder why you are making it now, you managed without for so long. Children and grandchildren have a clear need for furniture that take president over your needs! Now is your best chance to make yourself stuff!

    Yes you can make a lot with very little, that is the beauty of traditional joints, all of which can be made with just a few tools. Your tool collection is far from spartan! Raw stock preparation may be your biggest road block time wise. A local college may be able to help out?

    Old tools as an investment? Even using them to make furniture is a meagre income. ‘People’ have no comprehension of the time and care to make furniture that will last 100 years. They don’t want to invest in such furniture. One of my nephews sells wine in Hong Kong, his customers spend more on a bottle of wine than a piece of fine furniture. You have to be very good to sell them furniture.

    An important thought is by continuing now you will get better. Your artistic journey continues and takes you to a place you would never have got to ‘later’.

    I’m full of admiration for your small space set up. Despite my 1,400 sq ft workshop with a 14 ft ceiling, all my fine furniture is made on one workbench. Excluding the raw wood prep my set up resembles yours. The rest is storage, piles of wood, a huge plywood storage rack and other manufacturing areas. A drill press I would miss.

    More tools that make unusual tasks easier is a luxury. You have to remember you have them because you almost never use them, then you have to find them! The number of times I go through boxes and say “good grief, I have one of those!” Is not even funny! I need to buy nothing! I just have to find it! That 6V halogen bulb I put in a safe place……

    Make a furniture list for yourself now before your family give you their list……

    Haha, all great points!

    The "tools as investments" things was a joke, considering how expensive they've become. Though, one does have to wonder if an intelligent investment thesis could have been made given the lockdowns and stimulus checks, and rising popularity of the hobby.

    My plan is to hopefully semi-retire around 50. That's a ways off for me still, but I should be young enough to enjoy things for longer. Then again, I'm sure it will take me quite a long time to actually build the stuff I intend to enjoy...

    FYI, I do intend to continue doing woodworking. Just that I'm done buying tools for now... hopefully. I've got everything I need pretty much. Maybe I'm kidding myself that I can resist the temptation to buy yet another tool though...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Dupont View Post
    Early on in my woodworking journey I enjoyed watching Paul Sellers for precisely this reason -- he shows how to do everything with just a few basic chisels, a No# 4 plane, and a tenon saw.
    Yet he packs a whole storage of tools (says it on the blog) and a nice machine room behind that cute faux brick wall — it's alright though, I'd need two storage lots soon! Just let's not conflate someone's studio with somebody's shop: your ways of work don't necessarily match. You're not doing carefully designed pieces for carefully modeled situations and quite specific audience, are you?

    Besides, "everything" is always some basic construction with just basic functions. One can't dwell on this method for too long. Doing everything with a minimal set is rather limiting once you move on to more elaborate projects. Eventually you would want curves and non-rectangular geometry, more complex joinery, better finish, etc — not that it's impossible with just basic tools, but why? The idea of a minimalist tools set is really entertaining, and it's usually demoed by accomplished craftspeople. So it's like watching a tournament won with a single basic punch and then going to a gym practicing just that basic simple punch and nothing else. That's how tournaments won, isn't it? Of course Paul can do it with just basic tools, but he has mastered many more before making his choice. And it's fine, but a dado cut with a plane is not a bit less workmanlike than dado chiseled manually.

  13. #13
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    If I was getting paid, I would be alot more interested in speed of work.
    ~mike

    happy in my mud hut

  14. #14
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    I don't get paid...so...I couldn't care less how long a project takes....as long as it is done well, to MY standards....although..I do get accused of working way too fast....

    PS: I have been doing woodwork just about as long as Paul Sellers. I do take everything he tries to teach with a grain of salt....I also tend to learn a few things from him. FOR FREE>

    Thing that most FAIL to realize....Sellers is trying to teach the next group of beginners to this Kraft....AND get them interested enough to continue to LEARN about woodworking.

    He couldn't care less about those out there that CLAIM to be "PROs" and "Fine Cabinet Builders" ...THAT is NOT who he is trying to reach. Maybe all those "PROs" should come down off their high horses, and TEACH people about this Kraft.
    A Planer? I'm the Planer, and this is what I use

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    The people doing the paying generally are too.

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