Ordering Chinese CNC bits

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

So although some of you seem to think I am a shill, defame me without knowing me, and feel like I am advertising things, I have some more things to share with the greater community.

I ordered a set of CNC end mills directly off Alibaba and had great results. It was the same process I went though in buying my CNC machine direct from the manufacturer. I searched for several good looking companies with a low MOQ (minimum order quantity) of 10 or less pieces per size. Messaged them and asked them questions about quality of carbide, finishing, coatings. It was easy to send out a spreadsheet with a list of bits to each manufacturer form them to all quote the same order and most were able to supply a decent quote. Some were much more expensive, some had higher MOQ than was desired.

I settled on a company with good prices, the ability to order as few as a single but in each size and type, and they worked with me to send out any bits that I ordered 10 or more to a coating company to get the rainbow DLC coating. Now what exactly the coating specs are, I am not 100% sure, but the cost to have them sent for coating was $0.50-0.75 per bit, so it was literally pennies. I ordered 167 individual bits in all sizes from 3mm to 12mm including ball nose, tapered ball nose, up, down, compression, 1, 2, 3 flute, roughing, chip breaker, Vee, etc. everything was available.

Pricing was as low as $0.60 for a 3mm carbide 2 flute upcut. And the most expensive was the 12mm rougher at only $22. All told I paid $1159 for everything including shipping, which took 6 days and was trackable from its departure in China through to UPS delivery. So that works out to $6.90 per bit delivered and includes mostly 6mm and up sizes with many expensive roughers, tapered end mills, and specialty bits like single flute compression.

I would certainly do it again with the price of a single 12mm(1/2”) rougher like the Vortex 1180 at $364 or a 10mm Amana compression 48314-K at $128 list price (I bought 10 of these for $129).

I am happy to help out anyone looking for tips on how to setup a purchase or navigate the Chinese market. Even if you aren’t buying a large quantity, there are manufacturers that will work with you and are happy to send out a small package of 10 1/8” end mills. Even with shipping you will probably come out ahead and then have a contact to easily order more or larger bits quickly and easily.

And don’t worry about Bill poo-pooing on this thread telling me that I am advertising for a company. I would be happy to tell anyone which one I used, but there are 100 more offering the exact same things on Alibaba.

If I can figure out how to add pictures, I’ll post pictures of the bits.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Aha, I found out that I can't post pictures using my Iphone on this forum. Unless it is just something I am missing. Here is the first batch of pics.IMG-1842.jpgIMG-1844.jpg
IMG-1843.jpgIMG-1845.jpgIMG-1846.jpgIMG-1847.jpgIMG-1849.jpg

[Michael Burnside]

Will be interested to know how long the bits last when subjected to hardwoods and how they cut overall after several uses. Great prices it seems, time will tell.

I’ve been pretty happy with Bits And Bits or Whiteside and for how long they last and quality of cut I think they’re reasonably priced.

[Bill George]

Yeah, looks good and is cheap direct from China... what could be better? There is a reason why made in the USA items are more expensive.

[Jim Becker]

Why bother ordering via Alibaba...you can order from Amazon and EBAY for similar and often have them the next day or two.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Why bother ordering via Alibaba...you can order from Amazon and EBAY for similar and often have them the next day or two.

Amazon bits (quite obviously made in the same Chinese factories) are still 2-6 times more expensive than these that I ordered, even factoring in shipping costs. And other than ordering time, it only took 6 days to get them in my shop. For a single bit, sure, get it Prime, but for an order where you want to save $100s, you can place one per year and save.

You guys are so recalcitrant. I am showing people how they can save some money buy purchasing the exact same products they will otherwise be buying on Amazon direct from the manufacturer.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Yeah, looks good and is cheap direct from China... what could be better? There is a reason why made in the USA items are more expensive.

Oh Bill, maybe someday you will get over your vendetta. But I imagine that right now more than 50% of your house, shop, car, wardrobe, etc. was made in China/India/Mexico. So it is being a little hypocritical to be complaining about me telling people how to cut out the middleman and prevent Amazon and Ebay from sucking away more money.

They are nice bits. I don't see what could be better honestly, for anyone that is not looking for absolute maximum production performance where downtime of a few minutes costs real money. In that case, the extra $150-200 per bit (for the large ones) may make a difference. But even there, I don't see why more shops wont make a relationship with a manufacturer to produce super-high quality bits for them. Everyone can use the same grinding machines, purchase the same carbide, etc. You do get what you pay for, but you don't get any higher quality buying the same product marked up 2-6 times.

[Bill George]

One minor detail on your $1159 plus worth of Chinese direct sourced bits... if you need to deal with a Chinese vender when those cheap bits go dull in 5 minutes you will find you have zero recourse. At least when Jim and I order we can get our money back, if needed from the Ebay or Amazon site.

[Michael Burnside]

A cheap person pays twice! Look, I couldn't care less if you buy the cheapest bits around, that's your business. That said, I won't agree they are of equal value, longevity and long term quality of cut. Plenty of YouTube vids showing new, cheap bits cutting once and looking great. Good for them! I've got a few "expensive USA" bits that I would measure cuts in miles and they're still wicked sharp and leave crisp edges.

I'm not a hypocrite, I fully understand the global economy, but I'm not blind either.

My 2 cents

[Alex Zeller]

I haven't had a chance to use them yet but I picked up a pair of 1/2" down cut Spe Chinese bits off of Amazon. I paid $45 for the pair. I've heard good things about them. As for small bits (1mm, 1/16th, etc) you can get American made Kyocera bits off of ebay for cheap. One just needs to look around some to find good deals.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

You only have 30 days to return through Amazon. After that you can try to get your money back but there is no guarantee. With Ebay you still have to request a return, wait for the seller to respond, if they don’t want to deal with you, you have to open a PayPal case, potentially ship them back at cost, and wait again. So it’s not a free lunch. All for the benefit of buying the same bits for much more money.

Purchasing through Alibaba is like using Escrow. The seller doesn’t get their money until you mark that you have received the goods and that they are of the quality expected. You actually have to go in and mark them as received and checked before the money is given to the manufacturer, so you have just as much protection as you would buying from Amazon. On top of that, you can always work with you credit card company on a claim.

And why are you assuming that I have no recourse with my purchase? You sure do like to assume. I am dealing with a business just like any other. They can choose to make it easy, or they can tell me to pound sand. It is not different than an American company. What are you going to do if an American company tells you that they aren’t giving you a refund for your end mill? Sue them for $50? Take them to small claims court? Yeah right.

I choose to have trust that the company I am dealing with will deal with any issues that arise.

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

If these 1/2” 3 flute roughers only get 15% of the life of an American made end mill, I still come out ahead. And that doesn’t account for any accidental breakages. It’s not about buying “cheaply” it’s about being smart and going direct to the source.

You aren’t telling Mr. Becker above that he is buying crap off Amazon or that the guy buying SpeeTools bits that he is buying junk? Yet somehow I am purchasing “low end” bits just because the price is low since I went direct to the source.

Wow, such hate here in this forum just for some knowledge to others that they have another place they can get nice carbide bits from.

[stan kern]

I have been wanting to deal through Alibaba but I am still a bit shy
So it was good to see your information and good luck
i have dealt with china and if you get a good supplier or manufacturer then you will be ok, but if you have a bad person at that end you will loose
its a chance.I have met about 3 good people there and a few bad ones,
Anything special about getting Alibaba are they pretty good on returns money wise

[Jim Becker]

To be clear, most of my tooling is name-brand or at least USA-made, regardless of where I've purchased it. I do have some tooling that was made in China...some 1mm and 1.5 mm end mills, for example, because they were readily available from Amazon for a reasonable cost in multipacks since they are a bit riskier to use. There are also some regular router bits (not used on the CNC) for profiles that are one-time or occasional use that were made and marketed as Chinese, such as Yonko. Good stuff, too. I try to support North American manufacturers and vendors when I can because that's important to me personally. My choice isn't about any assumptions about quality...there are a lot of great products that are made in China and a lot of Chinese companies that produce with quality. There are bad products and bad companies, too...and the same is true for products and companies located in North America. And Europe. And...

[Matthew Joseph Rogers]

Yeah, I think it went well. I looked at all the bits and I identified a few that had some inconsistencies in the tip end grind (center grind too deep and went a tiny bit into the flute cutting area -not sure how to describe it), but only on one type and the manufacturer is looking into it. They will send replacements for those, so I am not concerned with it only affecting 6 out of 167.