Bandsaw Fences

[Mike King]

Doubt you're doing anything wrong - you've just subscribed to MF's and other's new view (erroneous in my opinion) that you should align the blade to the table. Your table just doesn't have enough adjustment to get you there.



A fence that adjusted for drift would though.


Which, yours does except that it's a total PIA and doesn't hold well.

And a fence adjusted for drift leaves the miter slot unaligned and not useful. Interesting that you call MF's method new since he started using it in the 1980s and has bandsaws that were set up then and have not had to be adjusted since...

[Tom Trees]

I've often seen this debate crop up before,
but not seen anyone mention the method do be sure of anything.

The top wheel is the reference, i.e non skewable, unlike the bottom wheel....
Just sayin, should one wish to be sure of anything.

Now let's complicate matters for clarity sake.
Imagine that you cannot also move the bottom trunnion segment, due to some factors,
well on my machine anyway.

Hoping myself that I'll have enough table adjustment, I've filed the holes in the top segment of the trunnion already, and looking back, I was chancing my arm really.

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https://i.postimg.cc/8zzKn0B4/SAM-6305.jpg


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https://i.postimg.cc/Hx8s0zhs/SAM-6753.jpg

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https://i.postimg.cc/J0BmJhty/SAM-6754.jpg

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https://i.postimg.cc/Vk0G8bp0/SAM-6767.jpg

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Good luck with yer machines folks
All the best
Tom

[Tom Trees]

Just for fun I might as well add this piccy
Bandsaw fence antics - Copy.JPG
https://i.postimg.cc/ydNBnPpS/Bandsa...ntics-Copy.jpg

When you consider how much of a pain it would be to remove my fence,
the simplest options seems the best to me, and should one want bells and whistles, this "design" lends itself to
complimentary outfeed or for sliding carriages ala Felder,
should you be starting from scratch, (hey flat bar is cheap, you might as well buy the whole length)

300 quid Centauro.jpeg
https://i.postimg.cc/ZR1bRNjB/300-quid-Centauro.jpg

Tom

[Dave Sabo]

And a fence adjusted for drift leaves the miter slot unaligned and not useful.

OMG, how can one use a bandsaw with an unaligned miter slot ?

What if the bandsaw doesn't have a miter slot ? Some of mine don't . Or, it's a goofy size that doesn't fit readily available gauges or accessories ? What if it's on the left of the blade closest to the throat like some Walker Turner's ? You're not going to be able to cut a very long piece (less than 10") with your perfectly aligned table and miter gauge on that one. And ya know, you could adjust your miter gauge to be 90 deg to the fence rendering a perpendicular cut if that's what you're really after for joinery. And that method still doesn't address Alex's problem in which the machine lacks the adjustment range to utilize it !

Interesting that you call MF's method new since he started using it in the 1980s and has bandsaws that were set up then and have not had to be adjusted since...

It is new - perhaps you're just too young to remember ? MF became a contributing editor at FWW about 10 years ago which is where most/all of this crowd got turned on to his method of aligning the table. Prior to that, do you know who was the FWW contrib. editor and resident bandsaw guru ? Mark Duginske. The fella which designed the Kreg bandsaw fence, Cool Blocks and wrote one of the best selling Bandsaw books of all time circa the late 80's. Guess what method he taught / published to deal with blade drift ? ? ? hint: not aligning the table to the blade.


Arthur Reed's article in FWW Mar. 1981 showed adjusting the fence.



Not sure if AF has actually published a book, but I'm pretty certain all of those predate it even if he has and definitely were before his FWW articles - so I stand by my statement that his method is "new". My grandfather and his crowd were not adjusting their saw for drift in the 40's & 50's by futzing with the tables every time they changed a blade - so yea , MF's method is new.




And what MF doesn't dwell on is that he has a dozen saws or so , dedicates a blade to them and doesn't change blades. Nice work if you can get it, but most people don't have that luxury - they have a saw and use different blades for re-sawing, curve cutting and or roughing blanks. Change the blade and the drift angle changes and blade wears , meaning ya gotta adjust. And the thrifty crowd buys whatever blade is on sale or available. Which means adjustment again because that 1/2" timberwolf blade doesn't drift like the 1/2' lenox, and neither is close to the 1/2" craftsman one. Adjusting the fence is easier and faster than re-aligning the table. Always.



Plenty of other bandsaw guys advocate the fence adjust over the table:

Lonnie Bird - The Bandsaw Book

Nick Engler - Using the Band Saw


Alex Snodgrass of Carter fame also advocates adjusting the fence for the folks that love em some you tubes:
https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/yh...f&action=click



Listen - I'm not debating whether Fortune's method works. It clearly does. And for those few people that need to have their blade and miterslot aligned for an operation AND have a saw that allows enough adjustment it's the only way. That's few people though. I am also saying adjusting the fence is the older, more traditional method; and it's easier. Especially for newbies.

[Tom Trees]

Listen - I'm not debating whether Fortune's method works. It clearly does. And for those few people that need to have their blade and miterslot aligned for an operation AND have a saw that allows enough adjustment it's the only way. That's few people though. I am also saying adjusting the fence is the older, more traditional method; and it's easier. Especially for newbies.

What do ya do if your trunnion won't align with the top wheel though...
Do you disregard this and purposely misalign the wheels, so the bottom wheel aligns with it?
BTW I've spent some time last year getting rigged up for making a new plastic spacer for my top wheel, I don't wish to make another.

Unsure if the bottom segment can be moved on some (many) machines. compared to others, so that's where I'm coming from.
That top wheel line simply puts an end to any argument regarding rip fence drift, and for crosscutting operations be it slot, table edge, or rail for sliding cross cut fence.

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https://i.postimg.cc/htBhms51/SAM-5048.jpg
Tom

[Stephen Bandirola]

Just get a flat tire bandsaw and y won’t have any alignment problems.

[Randall J Cox]

I adapted a used Kreg fence to my old PM 81 20" BS, works great but I had to add a piece of wood between so not to drill more holes. I installed a new band, adjusted the table to the blade a la Michael Fortune's video and aligned the fence to the miter slot and it cuts perfectly. So happy with it, use it a lot more now. And yes I have to take off the Kreg fence mount to change blades. Not an issue, to me anyhow. Randy

[Chris Parks]

My use of a BS pre dated MF's video and most probably YT and I worked out that aligning the mitre slot/fence to the blade via moving the table is the best way for me. What I now do is use a sled on the BS and that requires that the mitre slot is aligned to the blade. Track the blade on the top wheel until it is centred and starting from that I put a rare earth magnet on the blade and a straight steel rule. Measure from the rule to the mitre slot will align the by loosening the table does the job then align the fence to the mitre slot and you are good to go. Flat wheels are easier, just overhang the teeth on the top wheel and repeat the procedure for curved tyres. Using a sled on a BS is a game changer that a lot of us have yet to try. The linked video is in Italian but you will see some really good techniques used on a BS sled as well as general use tips.

[Randy Heinemann]

I’ve used the Carter Magfence for years and it works great. It is extremely simple to align. I do it with a square and, if the saw is set up properly measuring the same distance from the front of the fence to each of the fence lines it up. Setup of the saw is the key to everything. If it’s set up properly, no drift when resawing. This means setting the blade tension properly, setting the guides and thrust bearing correctly and getting the tracking and position of the blade properly. The Magfence worked better for me than the fence that came with the saw. The only drawback is that when using a feather board it’s easy to put too much pressure on the fence and it is possible to make it move. I don’t use a feather board and don’t have any problems.

Oh, by the way, nothing that works is idiotic.

[Lee Schierer]

My grandfather and his crowd were not adjusting their saw for drift in the 40's & 50's by futzing with the tables every time they changed a blade - so yea , MF's method is new.

And what MF doesn't dwell on is that he has a dozen saws or so , dedicates a blade to them and doesn't change blades. Nice work if you can get it, but most people don't have that luxury - they have a saw and use different blades for re-sawing, curve cutting and or roughing blanks. Change the blade and the drift angle changes and blade wears , meaning ya gotta adjust. And the thrifty crowd buys whatever blade is on sale or available. Which means adjustment again because that 1/2" timberwolf blade doesn't drift like the 1/2' lenox, and neither is close to the 1/2" craftsman one. Adjusting the fence is easier and faster than re-aligning the table. Always.

In my experience once you adjust the table, you don't have to make any adjustments for drift. I used to avoid rip cuts and resawing on my band saw because of drift during the cut. Someone at SMC put me on to Michel's band saw video and I tried it. It took about 15 minutes to get the table aligned. I can now change between the blades that I have 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" with various TPI without making any adjustment except slight adjustments to the upper wheel tilt to center the blade on the upper wheel. I have ripped pieces up to 8 feet long using my fence on my band saw. I now resaw far more frequently. I've even tilted the table to cut 2 x 6's into long wedges to make ramp pieces to help wheel chairs get over raised thresholds.

I also found out that cutting circles with a circle cutter jig is much easier. Finding the sweet spot where the blade doesn't creep toward the center or away from the center is much easier.

[Mike King]

clearly you have a bee in your bonnet. Michael Fortune began writing for FWW in 1981. He has a multitude of jigs that greatly enhance the usefulness of the bandsaw, many of which use the miter slot for registration and accuracy. Adjusting the fence for drift eliminates the ability to use the miter slot, or the edge of the table, in such applications.

sure, you could try squaring the miter gauge to the fence, but this will only work if the difference in the angle of the fence to the blade is less than half of the FERC of the blade. Otherwise, the back of the blade will bind on the back of the cut either deflecting your stock or the blade. And you won’t be able to build jigs that use the miter slot.

I don’t think Michael has written a book. However, he’s authored over 100 articles in woodworking publications such as Fine Woodworking, Popular Woodworking, Australian Wood Review, etc. there are many ways to reach an audience and arguably a broader audience is reached through magazines rather than books.

do what you want, but you might wish to be a bit more circumspect about your advice to others when you don’t have the background to understand what your advice is giving up. I doubt there are many woodworkers out there who use bandsaws as extensively as Michael — his shop has 9 that are in constant work in his business.

OMG, how can one use a bandsaw with an unaligned miter slot ?

What if the bandsaw doesn't have a miter slot ? Some of mine don't . Or, it's a goofy size that doesn't fit readily available gauges or accessories ? What if it's on the left of the blade closest to the throat like some Walker Turner's ? You're not going to be able to cut a very long piece (less than 10") with your perfectly aligned table and miter gauge on that one. And ya know, you could adjust your miter gauge to be 90 deg to the fence rendering a perpendicular cut if that's what you're really after for joinery. And that method still doesn't address Alex's problem in which the machine lacks the adjustment range to utilize it !




It is new - perhaps you're just too young to remember ? MF became a contributing editor at FWW about 10 years ago which is where most/all of this crowd got turned on to his method of aligning the table. Prior to that, do you know who was the FWW contrib. editor and resident bandsaw guru ? Mark Duginske. The fella which designed the Kreg bandsaw fence, Cool Blocks and wrote one of the best selling Bandsaw books of all time circa the late 80's. Guess what method he taught / published to deal with blade drift ? ? ? hint: not aligning the table to the blade.


Arthur Reed's article in FWW Mar. 1981 showed adjusting the fence.



Not sure if AF has actually published a book, but I'm pretty certain all of those predate it even if he has and definitely were before his FWW articles - so I stand by my statement that his method is "new". My grandfather and his crowd were not adjusting their saw for drift in the 40's & 50's by futzing with the tables every time they changed a blade - so yea , MF's method is new.




And what MF doesn't dwell on is that he has a dozen saws or so , dedicates a blade to them and doesn't change blades. Nice work if you can get it, but most people don't have that luxury - they have a saw and use different blades for re-sawing, curve cutting and or roughing blanks. Change the blade and the drift angle changes and blade wears , meaning ya gotta adjust. And the thrifty crowd buys whatever blade is on sale or available. Which means adjustment again because that 1/2" timberwolf blade doesn't drift like the 1/2' lenox, and neither is close to the 1/2" craftsman one. Adjusting the fence is easier and faster than re-aligning the table. Always.



Plenty of other bandsaw guys advocate the fence adjust over the table:

Lonnie Bird - The Bandsaw Book

Nick Engler - Using the Band Saw


Alex Snodgrass of Carter fame also advocates adjusting the fence for the folks that love em some you tubes:
https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/yh...f&action=click



Listen - I'm not debating whether Fortune's method works. It clearly does. And for those few people that need to have their blade and miterslot aligned for an operation AND have a saw that allows enough adjustment it's the only way. That's few people though. I am also saying adjusting the fence is the older, more traditional method; and it's easier. Especially for newbies.

[Jim Braun]

I don’t think Michael has written a book. However, he’s authored over 100 articles in woodworking publications such as Fine Woodworking, Popular Woodworking, Australian Wood Review, etc. there are many ways to reach an audience and arguably a broader audience is reached through magazines rather than books.

I am a novice and just got my first bandsaw last year; I followed Michael Fortunes advice on setup and I am extremely happy with the way my saw cuts and resaws.

[Dave Sabo]

clearly you have a bee in your bonnet. Michael Fortune began writing for FWW in 1981. He has a multitude of jigs that greatly enhance the usefulness of the bandsaw, many of which use the miter slot for registration and accuracy. Adjusting the fence for drift eliminates the ability to use the miter slot, or the edge of the table, in such applications.

perhaps I do, but it would seem you and the other MF acolytes do too.

Fortune's first published FWW article was in 1987 , not 1981 ! It was about a making a handheld mirror (for which he won a prize back when he first broke into woodworking). And he used a bandsaw. With a jig. But guess what ?- he didn't dwell on aligning his bandsaw table in order for the jig to function. Remember too at the time FWW and M.Duginske were showing readers how to align their fences to accommodate for drift. So it reasons that if MF thought it pertinent that the table be aligned for his jig to work he would have said so.

His ascension to editor and his/their showing his alignment technique didn't occur til about 10+ years ago. Clearly after or LATER than FWW's and it's previous editor Duginske showed dealing with drift by adjusting the fence. Still wanna argue which came first or is older ?

I don’t think Michael has written a book.

Matters not. I wasn't taking a shot that he didn't, merely pointing out that other's had come before his published work that were showing the fence adjustment over his technique. Again , reinforcing that his way is the newer one.

do what you want, but you might wish to be a bit more circumspect about your advice to others when you don’t have the background to understand what your advice is giving up

Back at ya. You still haven't addressed my issues with that technique or refuted my positions like the fence adjustment being faster and easier for a newb. You still haven't offered a solution for people like Alex who's saw table won't adjust enough to align the blade. You haven't provided an answer to my question that an unaligned miterslot is not the end of the world for a bandsaw. Or said what a fella is supposed to do if his saw doesn't have a slot, or it's on the wrong side for all those super duper MF jigs - or - your miter gauge.

All you've done is argue whether MF's technique is older than adjusting the fence and claim a bandsaw is somehow not fit for purpose if its miterslot is not aligned to the blade. (if it even has one)

My real issue is that your side doesn't acknowledge that the other technique works and is easier/faster; the latter being fairly inconsequential. You seem to be pushing the notion that table alignment is the only or correct way when it is not. And not one person in your camp has ever answered my question on why manufactures still ship adjustable fences with their bandsaws if it's unnecessary.

[Mike King]

perhaps I do, but it would seem you and the other MF acolytes do too.

Fortune's first published FWW article was in 1987 , not 1981 ! It was about a making a handheld mirror (for which he won a prize back when he first broke into woodworking). And he used a bandsaw. With a jig. But guess what ?- he didn't dwell on aligning his bandsaw table in order for the jig to function. Remember too at the time FWW and M.Duginske were showing readers how to align their fences to accommodate for drift. So it reasons that if MF thought it pertinent that the table be aligned for his jig to work he would have said so.

Negatory. His first article in FWW was in 1981. Here's a list of publications from 81-2015 for extra credit:

Fine-Wood Working Articles (1981 to 2015)

This Stand Really Delivers, TOOLS 2015
Tame Tricky Glue-ups, Nov/Dec 2014
Comfortable Outdoor Chair, Jul/Aug 2014
Lamination Delivers Beautiful Curves, May/Jun 2014
Toughen Wood with Epoxy, May/Jun 2104
7 Secrets of Steam Bending, Jan/Feb 2014
Develop Your Own Designs, Nov/Dec 2013
Strong and Handsome, Half-blind mitred Dovetails, Nov/Dec 2013
Vertical-grain, Stepped Drawer Fronts, Nov/Dec 2013 (Jonathan Binzen)
From Firewood to Furniture, Nov/Dec 2013 (J. Binzen)
Gear Up for Glue-ups, Jul/Aug 2013
Great Glue-ups, Guaranteed, Jul/Aug 2013
Readers Gallery (G.G.Table), Jul/Aug 2013
Never Struggle with Squeeze-Out Again, Mar/Arp 2013
String-Inlay Made Easy, Mar/Apr 2013
Fine Furniture with Biscuit Joints, Jul/Aug 2012
A Revolution in Chairmaking, Jul/Aug 2012
Put Your Designs in Perspective, Jul/Aug 2011
Finest Way to Expand a Table, Jul/Aug 2011
Case Closed (with SL & GH), May/Jun 2011
Get a Handle on Your Pulls (Matt Kenney referencing MCF), Nov/Dec 2010
3 Outdoor Chairs (with HG & MK), May/Jun 2010
Curved Panels Made Easy, Jan/Feb 2010
The Magic of Hot-Pipe Bending, May/Jun 2009
High Design, Low Price (by Anissa Kapsales) May/Jun 2009
$34 vs. $3400 (by Jonathan Binzen) May/Jun 2009
4 Custom Pulls That Please the Eye, Nov/Dec 2008
Flawless Curves on the Bandsaw, Jul/Aug 2008
Precise Tools for Drawing Curves, Jul/Aug 2008
Tapered Laminations Made Easy, Mar/Apr 2008
Try This Versatile Mortising Jig, Mar/Apr 2008
Mill Lumber Safely, Jan/Feb 2008
Free-Form Steam-Bending, Sep/Oct 2007
9 Tips for Better Design, Jan/Feb 2006
Five Essential Bandsaw Jigs, Nov/Dec 2005
Five Tips for Better Bandsawing, Nov/Dec 2004
Inspiration for a Bedside Cabinet, Jul/Aug 2004
A Slim, Comfortable Slip Seat, May/Jun 2003
Shaping Curved Furniture Parts, Nov/Dec 2002
Readers Gallery, (No. One Chair) Tools 2001
Production Hand-Mirror, Jul/Aug 1987
Fixtures for Steambending, Sep/Oct 1981

perhaps I do, but it would seem you and the other MF acolytes do too.
His ascension to editor and his/their showing his alignment technique didn't occur til about 10+ years ago. Clearly after or LATER than FWW's and its previous editor Duginske showed dealing with drift by adjusting the fence. Still wanna argue which came first or is older ?

Matters not. I wasn't taking a shot that he didn't, merely pointing out that other's had come before his published work that were showing the fence adjustment over his technique. Again , reinforcing that his way is the newer one.[/QUOTE]


I've never heard Michael claim that he is the origin of his method of aligning bandsaw to the blade. There very well maybe manuals showing his method prior to those that you've cited.

perhaps I do, but it would seem you and the other MF acolytes do too.
Back at ya. You still haven't addressed my issues with that technique or refuted my positions like the fence adjustment being faster and easier for a newb. You still haven't offered a solution for people like Alex who's saw table won't adjust enough to align the blade. You haven't provided an answer to my question that an unaligned miterslot is not the end of the world for a bandsaw. Or said what a fella is supposed to do if his saw doesn't have a slot, or it's on the wrong side for all those super duper MF jigs - or - your miter gauge.

All you've done is argue whether MF's technique is older than adjusting the fence and claim a bandsaw is somehow not fit for purpose if its miterslot is not aligned to the blade. (if it even has one)

My real issue is that your side doesn't acknowledge that the other technique works and is easier/faster; the latter being fairly inconsequential. You seem to be pushing the notion that table alignment is the only or correct way when it is not. And not one person in your camp has ever answered my question on why manufactures still ship adjustable fences with their bandsaws if it's unnecessary.

Amazing. Go back and read what I originally posted; that your method renders the miter slot unusable. If you have no use for a miter gauge on a bandsaw or a jig that uses the miter slot go ahead and only align the fence to the blade. But if you want to attain the full use of your bandsaw, then align the fence to the miterslot and the table to the blade. That will allow you to use your miter gauge, build jigs that use the miter slot, and attain a fuller use of the equipment you bought and paid for.

There's a reason why the trunnion on your bandsaw has oversize holes: it's to allow the table to be aligned to the fence. If the holes aren't sufficiently oversize to allow the table to be aligned to the blade, then there are several solutions:

1. Check that the blade is properly positioned on the wheels.
2. Check that the blade is not damaged, e.g. the set is incorrect on one size of the blade.
3. Use a step drill to enlarge the holes on the trunnion.

Why do fences allow for adjustment? For the same reasons that table saw fences allow for adjustment. Sometimes the rails that they are mounted on are not square to the table.

Mike

[Matthew Hills]

The linked video is in Italian but you will see some really good techniques used on a BS sled as well as general use tips.

Thanks for sharing -- how did you run across that channel?

There are some very interesting videos on that youtube channel--like the foam dispensers to keep blade clean when cutting green wood.

(I did cave and turn on the auto-translate option for the closed captioning)

Matt