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Thread: Sharpening Japanese Chisels in 2023

  1. #61
    After watching, well skimming through the above video, I think about how much time is spent on flattening the water stones. A lot, maybe even more than the actual sharpening. With my diamond lapping plates, they are already dead flat, so that eliminates a lot of work. "Efficiency is intelligent laziness." No clue who said that, but some thing I try to apply to everything I do.

    robo hippy

  2. #62
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    I didn't watch a video, but it doesn't take long at all to flatten my water stones. Maybe 5 to 10 seconds when they need it, which is not That often. I have 400 and 140 Atoma sheets on a granite surface plate sitting on the drainboard of my sharpening sink, and a double jointed spout from one of the faucets goes right over it.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed Gray View Post
    After watching, well skimming through the above video, I think about how much time is spent on flattening the water stones. A lot, maybe even more than the actual sharpening. With my diamond lapping plates, they are already dead flat, so that eliminates a lot of work. "Efficiency is intelligent laziness." No clue who said that, but some thing I try to apply to everything I do.

    robo hippy
    Reed, diamond plates are a part of my sharpening armoury, however the finest (1200 grit) falls somewhat short of what I want as the final polishing stone (13000 Sigma). Flattening is just a part of sharpening, and is done quickly if done regularly.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Reed, diamond plates are a part of my sharpening armoury, however the finest (1200 grit) falls somewhat short of what I want as the final polishing stone (13000 Sigma). Flattening is just a part of sharpening, and is done quickly if done regularly.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Hi Derek, I have a DMT extra, extra fine 3 micron (about 8000 grit) plate. I can go from that to the strop and get a very good edge. Time on the strop can get it as good as my 13000 Sigma. The DMT to the Sigma seems a bit faster but not by much. I do strop after the Sigma too. More out of habit than of any real use I think.
    Jim

  5. #65
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    I wonder why these really high end infill planes aren't brought to the Kezuroukai competitions to win the award and show everyone they've been using unnecessarily finicky tools that were developed before resources were plentiful?
    How wide is the shaving at the Kezuroukai competition? Are any infill planes that wide?

    The following of traditions is another way of saying, "this is the way we have always done it." This is an attitude not much liked by me, but it is respected when it is appropriate.

    Traditions do have value. In the western world there used to be apprenticeships. Young woodworkers learned to make some of their own equipment. Now many woodworkers protest, "I don't have the time" to make something so they buy it instead.

    Making a mallet, miter box or marking knife teaches skills. Making one's own plane body also taught skills. Even buying one someone else made the blade hade to be fitted.

    The social structure in Japan was quite different than that of the U.S. and Europe. A metal body plane likely was financially out of reach to most people wanting to work with wood. Also the weight of carrying a few to a job site was a hinderance.

    "Efficiency is intelligent laziness." No clue who said that, but some thing I try to apply to everything I do.
    On Efficiency.png

    “I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.”

    Bill Gates is often credited for this but it actually came from Frank B. Gilbreth Sr. who watched bricklayers and noticed the lazy ones could do more work without wearing themselves out.

    jtk

    -- I love reading quotes from all the great, intelligent people who preceded us.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #66
    How wide is the shaving at the Kezuroukai competition?



    maxresdefault.jpg

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    Hi Derek, I have a DMT extra, extra fine 3 micron (about 8000 grit) plate. I can go from that to the strop and get a very good edge. Time on the strop can get it as good as my 13000 Sigma. The DMT to the Sigma seems a bit faster but not by much. I do strop after the Sigma too. More out of habit than of any real use I think.
    Jim
    Hi Jim, I am aware of the extra extra fine DMT. I did not mention one as I do not see them used much, and I suspect that they are not easy to find. According to the manufacturer, it equate to an 8000 grit waterstone. That appears to be supported by your comment that you use a strop to get it to 13K.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Hi Jim, I am aware of the extra extra fine DMT. I did not mention one as I do not see them used much, and I suspect that they are not easy to find. According to the manufacturer, it equate to an 8000 grit waterstone. That appears to be supported by your comment that you use a strop to get it to 13K.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Truth is I only use water stones for PMV11 plane irons. The extra extra fine DMT or oil stones and a strop is used for most everything. Since green compound and the extra extra fine are supposed to both be about 3 micron itís a toss up. The strop seems to polish a bit. For paring chisels Iíll sometimes use clean leather without compound to finish up. Does that do anything? Makes me feel better maybe. Can I match a 13000 water stone with a strop? I really donít know, seems to work. When the metal hits wood and you get the results you expect itís good. You will know when it doesnít and you have a do over. I do use the strop a lot, more habit than intent and something to keep hands busy while I think.
    Jim
    Last edited by James Pallas; 02-03-2023 at 10:13 AM.

  9. #69
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    The green compound that Lee Valley sells "leaves behind a 0.5 micron scratch pattern". I think that means it is about 0.5 micron.

  10. #70
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    To see if your strop works look for a black build up. Iíve tried plain leather, does nothing, no black. Green compound on leather does get dirty as steel is removed. Green compound on wood does get dirty.

    I would never equate a strop with a 13,000 stone. The stone will polish the back flat. The stone will maintain an edge angle. Strops are flexible they polish right at the edge. Trying to polish more would take forever.
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    To see if your strop works look for a black build up. I’ve tried plain leather, does nothing, no black. Green compound on leather does get dirty as steel is removed. Green compound on wood does get dirty.

    I would never equate a strop with a 13,000 stone. The stone will polish the back flat. The stone will maintain an edge angle. Strops are flexible they polish right at the edge. Trying to polish more would take forever.
    I have stropped with clean leather since 1965. I strop because I can see the difference in performance of the tool.

  12. #72
    Diamond lapping plates are now available, from DMT, in grits 4000, and 8000. They also have diamond stropping pastes of 1, and 0.5 micron, which I think are in the 8000 and 16000 grit range. Highest grit grinding wheel I have run across is 1200 grit for the Tromek and other wet wheel grinders/sharpeners.

    robo hippy

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    I didn't watch a video, but it doesn't take long at all to flatten my water stones. Maybe 5 to 10 seconds when they need it, which is not That often. I have 400 and 140 Atoma sheets on a granite surface plate sitting on the drainboard of my sharpening sink, and a double jointed spout from one of the faucets goes right over it.

    This sounds odd. IME, stones need to be flattened at least before or after every use.

    In the video, which is kind of cute, they did seem to spend excessive time flattening the stones, without checking the progress. One it is flat, it cannot get any flatter, just wears away quicker.

  14. #74
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    With the 140 atoma ive also found that it takes but a second to flatten my stones. This could be because I use king stones. They are notoriously soft and is why I like them.

    Diamond paste in super high grits rubbed onto a large maple spindle mounted on the lathe is my lazyman power sharpening set up. I have 1k 4k 8k and 40k and green compound on the same spindle. Mostly used on carving and chair making tools, but I will hit the bevel of a japanese chisel if Im doing pairing work and feeling lazy.
    Last edited by chuck van dyck; 02-04-2023 at 6:43 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron Wood View Post
    This sounds odd. IME, stones need to be flattened at least before or after every use.

    In the video, which is kind of cute, they did seem to spend excessive time flattening the stones, without checking the progress. One it is flat, it cannot get any flatter, just wears away quicker.
    I have used King 800 stones for more than 40 years. I sharpen hundreds of chisels and plane irons between flattening sessions.

    A more traditional approach is to sharpen so as to avoid getting the stone out of flat. It is more economical as well.

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