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Thread: Hammer K3 slider T-nuts?

  1. #31
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    You used an Incra fence for your jig? I'm still musing over using different extrusions that I have on hand.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Drew View Post
    You used an Incra fence for your jig? I'm still musing over using different extrusions that I have on hand.
    Yep, I've got 2 pieces of "Incra Track" with 1/32"-based teeth, one on each piece of the F&F (not to be confused with their T-Track that has no teeth). There's no flip stop capability with this method, but the instant repeatability means I don't really need a flip stop. My original F&F jig only used T-track and homemade non-flip stops, but every iteration since then used the Incra setup.

    That weird looking gap at the end of the fence is there so the fence doesn't bump into the guard.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  3. #33
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    That's a great idea, Steve. I'll look into it.

    I think I found some nuts that will work. Not the 'roll in' type, but I think I can make them work. Ordered a few different sizes. When they show up, I'll update this thread with a full product description and link, if they work out well.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Drew View Post
    I think I found some nuts that will work. Not the 'roll in' type, but I think I can make them work. Ordered a few different sizes. When they show up, I'll update this thread with a full product description and link, if they work out well.
    I'll be interested in your results!

  5. #35
    Can you post a drawing or something. I can possibly make you some. I do nor understand alignment ball so I would have to see where it is in the tee nut. I am in the process of making some to fit my Saw Stop

    DSC04050.JPG
    Tom

  6. #36
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    Here are a couple of shots showing my F&F set up and the shortcomings of the Incra equipped F&F jig. Using the short fence shown which can be cut off the long rip fence if it is not a combination machine is way quicker and far cheaper. I hardly ever use the full length rip fence prefering to rip on the slider where possible as that gives the best result. I guess I use the full length rip fence a few times a year and that lives on a shelf between those few times. Having it pulled back as it should be if ripping is a proper pain in the backside as I was always having to dodge the overhang.


    Showing my day to day user F&F jig holding a piece to be cut at the dimension needed set on the rip fence.
    Using Rip Fence Stop.jpg



    The Incra showing the minimum clamping distance. I have to set the dimension twice on the Incra which is a pain and since I built it many years ago it has never been used and you see how much dust and dirt is on it as proof of that.

    Incra F&F Showing Minimum Holding Distance.jpg


    The same piece can be held using the plain Jane F&F jig
    Close Up Hollding View.jpg

    I have never seen any advantage in having flip stops and measuring on the F&F jig but everyone works differently, make a plain one which incurs no cost and use it before deciding if all the add ons are really needed. I have decided to sell the Incra version as it is never used and I wish I had not spent the money building it.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    The Incra showing the minimum clamping distance. I have to set the dimension twice on the Incra which is a pain and since I built it many years ago it has never been used and you see how much dust and dirt is on it as proof of that.
    The minimum clamping width is the same on both your jigs; just remove the stops from the Incra one.

    You at least are using the miter fence-style Incra tracks there, where the locking knob is in the back. I'm using the Incra Track where the locking knobs for the stop are in the front, which means the minimum clamping width when using the stops is even larger than yours. But I can always remove one or both if needed.

    I have no complaints about having to set the dimension twice, either, as setting it is very quick with the Incra design.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  8. #38
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    If I remove the flip stops what is the point.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    If I remove the flip stops what is the point.
    The point is that with the Incra setup you have very quick 1mm precision. If you need to cut something that is narrower than the minimum width between them then you can remove one or both flip stops, thus imitating your "Plain Jane" setup for those probably-not-so-common scenarios. Heck, you don't even need to remove the stops since they can flip right up and out of the way. I'm forced to remove mine in those situations due to their design.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  10. #40
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    I don't get it, why go to all the trouble of buying and making it if the flip stops have to be removed for full utilisation and then the measuring system no longer works. Using the fence as the stop is simpler and with a DRO on the fence it gives the same result. I doubt the DRO costs any more than the Incra fence system and most probably less and it is way more accurate than 1 mm if that is needed. Apart from the accuracy a DRO provides I value it more for the repeatability as well which the Incra fence system also provides. We all work in different ways but the thing I found when I changed from a cabinet saw to a slider was all my thinking had to change and this was one of many changes. A lot of users still do all their ripping using a rip fence when the sliding table does a far better and more accurate job. If the way I use the saw and the F&F jig does not suit you so be it as obviously what I do doesn't work for you.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  11. #41
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    Michael, I'm getting back to this thread as I have a K3, with several fixtures, and can show you what was used to secure them on the slider.

    As I see it, there are three connectors for the slider track. Note that my K3 has a 1250mm slider and the crosscut fence is at the near end.

    1. Straight ...



    This fits into the top of the track.

    2. Aluminium insert ...



    Now these do not need to fit the top of the insert. I found available ones and filed the down to fit the lower section of the track ...



    3. And the moulded version from Felder (which I mentioned earlier on) ..



    These fit the upper section of the track, not the lower section ...



    And they come in long lengths ...



    I use the straight ones in a parallel guide ...



    The guide is positioned at the far end and also fixed with a bolt into an aluminium insert. At the fence end it is positioned and attached by another aluminium insert. These nuts are left in the track.

    This funny looking fence is a Reversed F&F. Because the crosscut fence is at the near end, the F&F needs to push into the fence. To work, it also needs to lock down. Under the F&F is this arrangement, a straight guide (the moulder insert) and a locking aluminium insert ...



    Now do not forget that there is another track on the slider, down the side ...



    I built this mitre fixture (coping the Felder version) ...



    Underneath, it is connected to both tracks, the top track to position and the side track to adjust ..




    The side track is also used for this parallel guide ...



    .. using aluminium inserts.

    Nothing very fancy, but it is all pretty solid and works.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I don't get it, why go to all the trouble of buying and making it if the flip stops have to be removed for full utilisation and then the measuring system no longer works. Using the fence as the stop is simpler and with a DRO on the fence it gives the same result. I doubt the DRO costs any more than the Incra fence system and most probably less and it is way more accurate than 1 mm if that is needed. Apart from the accuracy a DRO provides I value it more for the repeatability as well which the Incra fence system also provides. We all work in different ways but the thing I found when I changed from a cabinet saw to a slider was all my thinking had to change and this was one of many changes. A lot of users still do all their ripping using a rip fence when the sliding table does a far better and more accurate job. If the way I use the saw and the F&F jig does not suit you so be it as obviously what I do doesn't work for you.
    Ah, right, I had forgotten that in your previous post you mentioned how you use the fence for a lot of your operations. I basically only use the fence for ripping pieces longer than the table, or as a stop block for when the "keeper" piece is on the right side of the blade (in which case I pull the fence forward; you have a short fence for that). Your use of the DRO means you don't need measuring on the left side of the blade when using the F&F, whereas I use the scales and stops on my F&F for that purpose. I've never had DRO on the fence side so my way of operating is "limited" in that respect.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Michael, I'm getting back to this thread as I have a K3, with several fixtures, and can show you what was used to secure them on the slider.

    As I see it, there are three connectors for the slider track. Note that my K3 has a 1250mm slider and the crosscut fence is at the near end.

    1. Straight ...
    2. Aluminium insert ...
    3. And the moulded version from Felder (which I mentioned earlier on) ..
    The first style can be dropped in anywhere but doesn't lock, while the second and third style can lock but must be slid in from one end. I think the OP wants something that combines both.

    Options for that are:
    1. Something like the ones with the ball catch. Those specific ones can be dropped in and then used, but alignment of them is not automatic.
    2. Drop-in T-nuts that are the width of the top section of the slot. They drop in parallel to the slot and then turn and catch against the lower section when you tighten the bolt. I never found ones that would suit my needs and truly fit the slot size of the K3. I did make one out of wood at one point but they are so small they are fragile.

    For years I used all 3 of Derek's options. The first style worked for my F&F jig (and still does, minus any locking). For clamps and jigs that need to lock I just slid them in from the end. That becomes annoying with a 2000mm table, and even more so if you've already got some pieces setup on the slider and suddenly realize you want to clamp something. So more recently I went with the "leave blocks in the track all the time" method, and that seems to work for me.

    And does Felder still sell their track? Last I looked I didn't see it on their online shop, but I don't have the part number for it so can't just look it up.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bussey View Post
    Can you post a drawing or something. I can possibly make you some. I do nor understand alignment ball so I would have to see where it is in the tee nut. I am in the process of making some to fit my Saw Stop

    DSC04050.JPG
    Thanks for the offer Tom. I did post some pics earlier. The ball is for applying some upward pressure on the nut, forcing it to sit flush with slot. I have given up on finding a T-nut that has one, that would fit this machine.

    I think I found a solution, but will reserve final thoughts till I have them in hand. I have found that dimensional drawings on Amazon or eBay can sometimes be a bit deceiving.

    I bet you could make a little money machining aluminum stock to fit these machines. Maybe drill and tap them every couple of inches, then they could be cut to desired length.

  15. #45
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    Derek,

    Appreciate the pictures and jig ideas. I had already bookmarked your site, and had planned to steal some of your designs.

    I actually have the same three sections of Felder track. It is sold as a kit for making a table extension. The part name/number is not handy at the moment. I believe it is listed in German. Problem I had with using it, is it sit proud of the table. I had to run it through the planer to knock down the height a few thousands. I also re-drilled and tapped all the holes to 5/16". I think it'll come in handy for some things, others - not so much.

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